Author Topic: The pressure is on  (Read 4428 times)

kenberg

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The pressure is on
« on: July 17, 2017, 02:06:37 AM »
http://tinyurl.com/ybenlonb

You are E playing 7 !C , the lead is the !C T, it goes TJ23

What are your thoughts on the best line for 13 tricks? Declarer went down and got a little advice afterward but I think his line had definite possibilities and was plausible. Maybe we can do better? We play what to be where and then we do what? It seems to me that there are a couple of possibilities.
Ken

OliverC

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Re: The pressure is on
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2017, 09:35:35 AM »
Great hand, Ken, but what a horrible slam. Talk about being saved by Opps with their choice of opening lead!


I guess there's no real story unless the Clubs are 4-1. Since no sane person leads the 10 !C from Q10xx or Q10x against a Grand Slam in that suit, I have to place North with !C Qxxx. My plan, therefore, is to finesse Clubs against North's Queen at trick 2 (rather than cashing the Ace first) and then start on the Spades. At some point, North will be forced to ruff in to stop my discards. (If they don't ruff in at any point and discard Diamonds, I'll take the !D finesse against South, but if they discard Hearts, as per the next paragraph)


How it goes from there depends a little on how many Spades North turns up with before they ruff. If they have only 3 Spades I will now take K !D, A!C and a !D ruffed high in Dummy, catering for any 3-3 break or any 4-2 break with the Queen doubleton, or any situation when North has 4 or more Diamonds.


If North turns up with 4 Spades, however, I'll go for the red-suit squeeze against South: Vienna Coup the Hearts, draw the rest of the trumps and hope to squeeze South in the red suits on the last black card from Dummy when I can come down to !H Q, !D K10 opposite !D AJx, but South will have to shed the K !H or a Diamond. That would, of course, also work against North if they have the Q !D and King of !H.


The one thing I am not going to do here is to take the Diamond finesse (either way) without testing the Spades first, because that really is just a 50% shot. I think the cumulative percentage of my line is slightly higher, but I've not worked it out exactly :).
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kenberg

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Re: The pressure is on
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 01:10:22 PM »
Here are all four hands

http://tinyurl.com/ybr8jj38


There are several interesting features. Since I had seen the hand it was perhaps a little tough to be objective, but I wanted to see if you or whoever responded would trust that the !C Q lay to declarer's right.  Or rather trust that enough to play on that assumption.  Leading the T from QT, with or without accompanying spots, seems odd enough that I think I would go with the Q being to my right and then see where this leads.

I'll pursue this further, but first I want to say something positive about declarer's line. It didn't work, but it wasn't nuts, once he decided, as he did, to start by  drawing trump.  It would have worked, for example, if the hands had been

http://tinyurl.com/ydxsl7xq
Here I have switched the !D Q with a !D spot.

He cashed the high club on the board, finessed a club back to his hand, and drew the last trump. He ran his spades, played a heart to his A, a diamond back to the board.

On the board he now has
 !D T!H
!H Q

In his hand
!D A J

If either opponent started by holding both the !H K and the !D Q , something which is just a tad under 50%, that opponent has now either thrown his K or blanked his Q.  Since the K has not appeared, he led a !D to his A.

So this line works whenever the two red honors are in the same hand, and it also works if the !D Q was dealt as a doubleton. That's better than 50%. Whether he had enough evidence to revise the plan after 11 tricks and take the finesse is unclear, but if so he didn't see it. Of course the spades do not have to split 4/3. If they are 5/2 he learns this in time to switch plans and put his faith in diamonds. Qxx onside would bring him home. Actually Qx onside will often work also , with various squeeze possibilities depending on who has the known spade length.

Now back to T1-T2, with thoughts on the trump Q. Let's suppose we are willing to stake the contract on the !C Q being with RHO. If spades are 4/3 either direction we have 12 tricks so a !D ruff will be the 13th trick. We can get it if diamonds are no worse than 4/2 either way:

T1 J holds, declarer follows with the 3
T2 small !C to the 9
T3 small !D to the K
T4 T !D to he A
T5. Small !D to the !C K
T6 small !C to the 8

Now we pause to see if we are home safe. If diamonds were 3-3 or the Q was doubleton, we now draw the last trump and claim, no longer caring whether spades split or not. We  have taken four club,  two top  diamonds and a ruff, we still have the !D J to cash, and then four spades and one heart. That's 13.

If this line does not bring down the !D Q then we are still alive if we can bring in five spades. A 4/3 split will do it, but with a little care we might be able to help things along. Suppose  LHO was dealt 5=3=4=1. Then cashing the last trump and the high heart will at T7-8 will force him to give up a !D or a !S, and the hand comes in. It is possible, although less likely, that LHO started with two diamonds. Maybe a 5=5=2=1 shape.  But this makes it likely he holds the !H K.  Thus, if LHO shows up with only two diamonds, cash the !H A at T7 , leaving five spades and the !H Q on the board. Now, at T8 bit not at T7, cash the last club..LHO has to hold his hypothetical  !H K  , but this forces a !S discard. Either way, you have your 13.

Ok, it gets a little complicated at the end, but that happens only because we are trying to cope with a possible 5-2 spade split. If spades are 4-3, we have our contract as soon after four tricks, when the second round of diamonds escapes unruffed.


Now back to T1 and what I think is the most important part. There are various ways to try to bring this in, depending on how the cards might lie. But the crucial clue, I think, is that LHO would not have led the T from any holding that included the Q. If we start with that, then various possibilities emerge. Declarer took a line that would succeed if the !H K and the !D Q were in the same hand, and would also work if the !D Q were doubleton. Over 50%, at least  if the spades come in, not bad, but if we assume from the start that the !C Q is to our right, we might find something better. Ruffing a third round of diamonds high works if this brings down the Q, works if spades are 3-3 no matte whether the !D Q comes down or not, and sometimes works even if spades spades are 5-2 and the diamonds are 4-2 with the Q not falling.

So, repeating the main point,  the a priori odds on how the cards lie can be put aside once we deduce, from the opening lead, that the !C Q lies to our right. If we take the J at T1, and then finesse the 9 losing to the Q, our LHO is either a mad genius or just mad. But in reality, it simply won't happen. For example, declarer could have AJxx, dummy Kxxx, and partner 9xx. The defense is, or at least probably is,  getting a club trick. But no if the lead is the T at T1. [Added: maybe not. I guess, assuming no !C is led, and declarer has AJxx with Kxxx on the board, missing the T, the 9 and the Q, there is something to be said for playing to drop the Q after a start of small club to the T-K-x and then x from the board, x on the right.   Ah, but then a defender should play the T first round from Tx. This could morph into a digression. Still, I have never seen a trump lead of the T from QT. Paging Zia.  ]

 



« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 02:10:26 PM by kenberg »
Ken

onoway

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Re: The pressure is on
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 06:49:19 PM »
would this be a matter of playing for the Q !D to be where it was because otherwise it very likely won't make? the Q !C is an interesting question simply because it wasn't played over the J but  as Oliver said nobody is going to lead the T !C from QT and if these were GIBS they LOVE to lead singleton trumps.  So you can draw the trump successfully and run the !S but you still have a problem. Can you really afford not to draw trump  in case  North has a single or void like you do in !S

I'd assume the !D a better bet than the !H simply because you are only missing one honor instead of two, is that a sensible thing to think? Once you've pulled trump and run the !S  I'd probably take the K !D and then finesse north for the Q. If it fails, no matter what south leads back you have the 12th trick. so going down only 1.    I wouldn't have the first clue how to play the !H in a 7 contract, missing both the K and the J . :)




« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 07:03:45 PM by onoway »

OliverC

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Re: The pressure is on
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 08:17:52 PM »
For me the critical things on this hand are

(1) Assume  that the Q !C is on your right with either 2 or 3 more small cards.
(2) To plan a line of play whereby you can either
  • play for a reasonably favourable Diamond position that will either enable you to take two Diamond ruffs (Qxxx on your right), or
  • bring down the Q !D with one ruff (Qx anywhere or 3-3 split), or
  • play an automatic red-suit squeeze against either opponent, or
  • change and take a Diamond finesse against LHO

Being able to do any of those, depends totally on (1) a Club to the 9 at trick 2, and (2) testing the Spades before you make a final decision which way to go
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kenberg

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Re: The pressure is on
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 11:03:45 PM »
From Pam
would this be a matter of playing for the Q !D to be where it was because otherwise it very likely won't make? the Q !C is an interesting question simply because it wasn't played over the J but  as Oliver said nobody is going to lead the T !C from QT and if these were GIBS they LOVE to lead singleton trumps.  So you can draw the trump successfully and run the !S but you still have a problem. Can you really afford not to draw trump  in case  North has a single or void like you do in !S

I'd assume the !D a better bet than the !H simply because you are only missing one honor instead of two, is that a sensible thing to think? Once you've pulled trump and run the !S  I'd probably take the K !D and then finesse north for the Q. If it fails, no matter what south leads back you have the 12th trick. so going down only 1.    I wouldn't have the first clue how to play the !H in a 7 contract, missing both the K and the J . :)


You can make this with the !D Q on either side, depending on what else is where. The wast the actual declarer played it, he would make it if the !D Q and the !H K were in the same hand. This may sound unlikely but it isn't. Having both on your left, both on your right the K on your left and Q on your right, and having the Q on your left and the K on your right are four approximately equally likely possibilities. In each case you stipulate the exact location for both the two cards. The chances are not exactly equal because after you stipulate where the Q is there is less room to place the Q there. But his line more than makes up for the slight drop from even money by the fact that he will drop a doubleton Q playing it as he did. So his line was better than 50-50. 

He did not exactly "play the hearts", not in the sense of developing the suit. He did cash the A. After 11 tricks he was on the board. On the board were the !H Q and the !D T. In his had were the !D A and the !DJ. If either opponent started with both the !D Q and the !H K, he had to hold the !H K or the Q would be good. But that means that his only remaining !D is the Q and it will fall.

At the end, he had a choice. But the basic plan was not a bad one and he stuck with it. It's a better plan than a coin flip finesse.

But I agree with O that we can assume from the opening lead that the !C Q is to the right of declarer. We can assume it strongly enough that a small club from the board at T2, playing the 9, seems very safe. And it allows for other options. The simplest, maybe not the best but I think pretty good, is the one I was talking about. Play  !D to K, back to A,  ruff the third round high, lead dummy's last trump to finesse again. This will certainly gain a trick unless there is a stiff  !D on your right. If spades split no worse than 4-3 then one trick brings you to 13, that's that. With a little favorable luck in !D , meaning that three rounds of !D brings the Q down, you don't care how the spades split. If the !D Q does not fall in three rounds  and the spades do not split, you still have chances.   So it's a decent line. Best? Maybe not. Not bad though.


Ken

kenberg

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Re: The pressure is on
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 11:35:13 PM »
I will have to think more about running the spades first. If spades are 4-3 the third round high ruff in !D is the 13th trick. So the question is how to get to 13 when the spades are 5-2.  My route works some of those times. Certainly if the !D Q comes down on three rounds of !D , and sometimes if there is Qxxx somewhere. If LHO has the five spades, and he is the more likely one given his stiff club, then I am fine as long as he is the one either with the four diamonds or with  the !H K. It get trickier of RHO has five spades. This requires LHO to have ten red cards. Not so likely but possible. 

I have not thought it through.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 11:36:44 PM by kenberg »
Ken

OliverC

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Re: The pressure is on
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2017, 07:38:57 AM »
The thing about testing the Spades first is to get a better count on the hand before you commit yourself to any particular line in Diamonds. If LHO, as expected, shows out on the second round of Clubs, and RHO follows to only 2 rounds of Spades, that gives them 7 red cards. If LHO follows to only 2 rounds of Spades, that means RHO has only 4 red cards. It's a matter of giving yourself a better idea of the likely red suit distribution before committing yourself to one particular line or another.
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kenberg

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Re: The pressure is on
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2017, 11:17:52 AM »
I have thought a bit more about this. There are cases where your line works and mine doesn't and cases where my line works and your ine doesn't (or so I think). "My line" and "your line" are just handy ways to reference this, we are not tied forever to them.

In the case of RHO holding five spades: This is definitely in your column. With five spades and four clubs, RHO holds four red cards and LHO holds ten. The odds are heavy that the !D Q is with LHO. Unless RHO has a !D void you have 13 tricks as long as LHO has the Q: Run the four spades, ruff the fifth, cash the remaining high trump, finesse a !D to the board, draw the last trump, cash the high !D, come to hand with the !H A, cash the high !D. That's 13.

The following is, I think, evidence on my side: Any time the !S are 4-3 either way and RHO holds at least two !D , I take 13 tricks.  With that shape, starting on spades, after the !C to the 9, gives you the following. Everyone follows to the first three rounds of spades. Now we know that unless RHO has either a void or a stiff in !D my line would have been guaranteed to work. I grant that your line is a favorite to work, but it won't always at least as I understand it.  My line in this 4-3 case fails on a stiff !D on my right, but otherwise I am home.

My line is not DOA when spades are 5-2 although it is almost so when RHO holds five spades. Definitely the 5 spades on my right goes your way. When LHO holds the five spades I will often still bring it home. If LHO also holds either the !H K or the !D Q  (fairly likely with the red cards split evenly) I am home, and also sometimes when he holds neither.

When the spades are 5-2 with LHO holding 5, your line is not DOA but I think it gets iffy.  it's more of a mixed bag.  Now each opponent holds 6 black cards and so 7 red cards. Probably, although not certainly, RHO will choose to ruff the third club. If so, you over ruff. Now what?  There are choices, with decent chances. With my line, when spades were 5-2, there were also reasonable chances. Neither gives certainty.

So I think it is a close call.  I think, for me, the argument is: If spades are 4-3 and RHO holds at least two diamonds, playing club to 9, diamond to K, diamond back to A, ruff third diamond high always works. It's true that this line fails at times when your line works, but the reverse is also true. I remain uncertain which is best.

At any rate, small club to the 9 at T2 gives some pretty decent options.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 11:53:45 AM by kenberg »
Ken

OliverC

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Re: The pressure is on
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2017, 02:36:59 PM »
Giving yourself options is what it's all about :)
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