Author Topic: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th  (Read 5485 times)

Curls77

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2022, 12:45:28 PM »
CAPTAINS, I sent you all mail, same as here below, if you missed it or ended in your spam folder.

This month we have a new problem. Being August, most UK players are away on holidays, and ACOL could not get enough teams to match all ours.
We have 2 options:
a) Other teams accept pairs from above mentioned teams, to play in one of stanzas within their team. Double Down team already expressed good will to do that.
v) If this is not possible, I will have no alternative but apologize and dismiss those 2 teams. I will not call random team to fill up the match, because most likely we'll get quitters and match will end up cancelled, frustrating everyone.


I am sorry this info comes so late. Please see this file ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YFSwtN47jjccV_02e2L8yBWH1SAVPlld/view?usp=sharing ), and if your team is willing to accept Goldie's and Tea's pairs, please reply here, CCd to all. I'll have to know before 0900utc tomorrow (Sunday, 5am NY, 10am London)


Please be sure all players are online and ready to start playing 10 minutes before scheduled start time. Also, please tell players to NOT be engaged in another game, BBO changed team matches setup and now we can NOT invite any player that is playing elsewhere, even solitaire.
Have your system, leads, carding agreed and announce when you meet the opponents. All artificial bids must be alerted by meaning, not convention name.

Wishing IAC teams best of luck and lotsa fun for all!


Hugs, Sanya (Curls77)

kenberg

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2022, 03:14:13 PM »
I have now completed a BBO cc for Todd and I. Playing 2/1 UDCA
I note that there is little room for detail.   

This lack of room is a serious problem.
In describing our system I forgot to mention CCR3 and I play five card majors. Of course we do, but for ACOLs it probably is worth mentioning. It is on our card. We also play strong NT (15-17) and udca.

Since, at least so far, I haven't a clue as to what our opponents will be playing ( 4 card majors? weak NT?, how weak?) it would be useful to have maybe five minutes or so to read their cc before the first hand appears. I don't know if that is easy to arrange.
Ken

palych

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2022, 06:27:56 PM »
With this number of teams, should we organize IAC teams championship?

Like round robin over few months?

Sorry for off topic :)

Curls77

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2022, 07:05:25 PM »
With this number of teams, should we organize IAC teams championship?
Like round robin over few months?
Sorry for off topic :)

We used to have Team and Pair League, but tools to keep all automatic stopped working, and we simply can not find anyone to make a working tool for it.
And some years ago, we did have Team series, where week after week IAC teams would play Round Robin. Same here, the tool stopped working. Setting this up is not hard, but keeping clear scores and who opps whom next week is not as easy if done manually.

Too bad - we need someone to make a tool.

Curls77

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2022, 07:13:21 PM »
This lack of room is a serious problem.
(...)
Since, at least so far, I haven't a clue as to what our opponents will be playing ( 4 card majors? weak NT?, how weak?) it would be useful to have maybe five minutes or so to read their cc before the first hand appears. I don't know if that is easy to arrange.

All ACOL players play standard ACOL, except only 1 pair -- Gbs1 & Kaltstart  (5 card majors & strong NT)
In 1st stanza, 1st listed IAC pair will be NS, playing against 2nd listed ACOL pair. In second stanza you get the other pair for opponents.
You can check their play records in BBO's myhands or contact their Captain before the match and get more details.
Also, when the match starts, you are not rushed - you are allowed to spend a few minutes to state your system, hear about theirs and ask questions if you have any. But be reasonable pls - none wants full discussion how partnership deals with XYZ or modified Drury, for example.

kenberg

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2022, 01:20:26 PM »
A question:

The auction begins 1NT(12-14)-X(penaty, starting around 15hcps)?
What happens next?

I realize they have the next bid. Hereare a couple of possibilities
1NT-X-Pass
1NT-X-Xx

Ini my (lmited0 experience against th weak NT different pairs play that beginning very differently.

Maybe 1NT-X-Pass means "nothing to say" and 1NT-X-XX means values.
Other times, against other pairs, 1NT-X-XX is the start of a run and 1NT-X-Pass forces XX from opener if fourth hand passes.

Are there simple written suggestions somewhere for handling either of these developments? I would rather not try to re-invent the wheel between now and game time.
Ken

kenberg

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2022, 11:58:50 PM »
Congrats to the acol team and best wishes for the future.
Ken

yleexotee

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2022, 01:30:12 AM »
@ken:  Here is something I put together with Doug Smix. It is beautifully named Coyote Run-outs...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13LmBP_PkS1cgeEgS35ccnT7dOXc37azi-xt61E4IhsM/edit?usp=sharing

kenberg

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2022, 01:47:33 AM »
@ken:  Here is something I put together with Doug Smix. It is beautifully named Coyote Run-outs...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13LmBP_PkS1cgeEgS35ccnT7dOXc37azi-xt61E4IhsM/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks, I will think about it. It turned out that the pair we were playing in the second half were playing strong no trumps. They probably said so but I did not realize it until board 6 where the auction went 1D-1H-1NT-2NT-Pass. Opener and responded each had a 12 count. The opponents of the first half were playing weak NT.

Often that's the way it is. Someone constructs an exotic idea such as Coyote Run-outs but in the practical world I fail to notice this pair is playing strong NT not weak NT.

No harm was done, I just find the gap between theory and practice to be something of a chasm. I recently learned an amusing variant on an old saw "That's fine in practice but how does it work in theory?"
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 01:50:10 AM by kenberg »
Ken

wackojack

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2022, 08:54:16 AM »
Good Acol weak no trump players have a well rehearsed run out to a penalty double.  It is similar in many ways to the Coyote run out but somewhat simpler.  See Halmic or Helvic on their convention card. 
 https://www.bridgewebs.com/porthcawl/HALMIC%20DEFENCE%20TO%201NT%20DOUBLED.htm
https://www.bridgewebs.com/northfield/Helvic%20-%20one%20no%20trump%20doubled.pdf

One of the good things about theese challenge matches from the iac pov is the exposure that iac players get to unfamiliar bidding situations.

Another situation that we in iac would do well to have experience of is the 2 way 2 club opening bid which is popular this side of the pond and is banned? on the other side.  A 2C opening bid is either a weak 2 in diamonds or a normal strong artificial 2C that we are all familiar with.  Partner of the 2C open is obliged to respond 2D (unless very very strong)  and opener passes if it is a weak 2D or continues bidding if strong.  We lost out when it came up at the other table in our match.

You may ask what advantage (besides its anfamiliarity) does this convention give? 
Answer:  It releases an opening of 2D to be used for other purposes. Usually in my experience:
2D = A weak 2 in a major
2M = weak with a 5card major and 4 plus cards in an unspecified minor.  (Officially called Muiderberg or Dutch 2 or sometimes erroniously called  a Lucas 2)     

kenberg

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2022, 01:19:57 PM »
There was a time in m life when I played more and encountered a greater variety of systems. With regard to the system over 1NT-X it says, for the opener, "If partner (the responder to the 1NT), passes – you must re-double". This was one of my favorite agreements to run up against. Often third hand had a flat hand with little or no values and we were about to get a good result no matter where they ran to. I played weak NT with someone for a while and once found myself in that situation. Partner opened 1NT, Rho doubled, I passed, opener redoubled, I bid 2C, doubled, then 2D doubled and so on. I miraculously got a good result. The opponents complained that my bidding was misleading because my first bid of 2C was on a three-card suit. I explained that I decided to start with clubs and stop at the first suit that wasn't doubled. It worked. If neither of them doubled my 2H bid that was their choice.

Anyway, I agree. It's fun and interesting to deal with unfamiliar systems.

The 2C opening that you spoke of came up on the last hand of the second set. Everyone vul, imps, I am holding

S: QJ64
H: 85
D: K852
C: KQ9

Rho deals and passes, I pass, Lho opens 2C alerted as either weak with diamonds or a big hand. Partner doubles. Undiscussed but I sure hope that's a club suit, Rho passes, I pass, Lho bids 2D, alerted as the weak D call. Rho passes. Ok, this is an opportunity. I know more about pard's hand than if Lho had opened 2D followed by two passes. Pard has clubs (yes, undiscussed as I said but I hope she does and she does) and presumably some other values since a shaggy club suit is not enough to warrant the X if my Lho has the big hand and I have zip. So, now what? Well I got it wrong. We can make 3C and we can make 2NT but my choice was 3NT, off 1. It might have worked. Some days optimism works, some days we should stick with pessimism.


« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 01:34:16 PM by kenberg »
Ken

wackojack

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2022, 02:24:43 PM »
I have to say that I have sympathy with the bidding and I might have done the same with both hands. These are my later thoughts:
Game all West opens 2 !C
 !S A102
 !H 763
 !D A10
 !C AJ832

S: QJ64
H: 85
D: K852
C: KQ9

Double?  Intuitively this has to be showing a club suit.  If opener has strong 2 !C it is only a lead director if East becomes declarer which is very unlikley. It does not have a 4 card major and so there appears no advantage to letting 2 !D by East to be passed around to you.  So a double is likley to be saying "I have a hand that wants to compete so worth an opening bid and likely no 4 card major and certainly not 4-3(4)  in the majors"  North has a good 13 points with 5 clubs and 3-3 in the majors and so qualifies for a double.
Pass and wait?  No because you cannot double 2 !D and cannot compete at the 3 level.

Round to South after 2 !C-(dbl) - ?
2NT?  A balance 11 count with no aces? I partner has 5 clubs and 12 or so points 8 tricks may be all we can take.
3NT?  If partner has 6 clubs missing the K and Q and 12 or so points we could easily have 9 tricks. 

A finely balanced decision. Alas 3NT was the losing decision losing us the match.  As at our table partner's weak 2 !D opening bid was passed out going 1 off.  Beating par but losing 5 imps and thus the match. 

Curls77

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Re: IAC vs ACOL - Challenge #6 Sunday August 7th
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2022, 03:58:47 PM »
One of the good things about theese challenge matches from the iac pov is the exposure that iac players get to unfamiliar bidding situations.

That's so true Jack : ) And I hope everyone is having fun, regardless of the results.
Funny coincidence in 1st session, where each Club won one match with exactly + 65 imps!!


Thanks to all that participated in 6th AUGUST Challenge : ) Warm Cudos to IAC winning teams:
* Double Down & Goldie (Captain: djc11): djc11 & V2008 + Esji & Rtadep and Rebekahm & DrAculea + Annwann & Srdjandj
* Avengers (Captain: jojah45): jojah45 & thornbury + Rebekahm & rober t

Big thanks to good sportsmanship of all players from Double Down and Goldie's team that merged into one, so that everyone could play.
PDFs of all matches, as well as travellers, can be found in IAC Drive, the link is: https://tinyurl.com/mrycy7fz