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Author Topic: How? And should we?  (Read 3141 times)

kenberg

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How? And should we?
« on: November 27, 2020, 01:49:14 PM »
Natchpoints, nobody vul, your partner is a robot, he deals and opens 1 !H. Your opponents pass throughout. You hold:

!S AKJ7653
!H Q97
!D A54
!C void

What's the plan? Yes, it depends on what the agreements are.  Ig you bid 1 !S partner will respond 2 !D. And his hand is minimal so if we are going to a slam it will be up to us to pave the way. I later put four bots at the table and had them replay this. The response was 1 !S and they ended in 4 !H.

The bots play Soloway jump shifts so, as S, I decided to give it a try. 1 !H - 2 !S. Partner now bids 2NT, after which I can show !H support and short !C by bidding 3 !C. Except that the bots treat this as showing four card support for !H. Not all Soloway jump shifters agree that it shows four. Also. I was not thinking right and just bid 3 !H (rather than 3 !C)  showing a good hand with good spades and with heart support (also showing four, according to the bots, and denying shortness since I could have bid my shortness).  We ended  in 6 !H.

Now let's look at the hands:

!S 8
!H AKJ86
!D K932
!C QJ2


!S AKJ7653
!H Q97
!D A54
!C void

Ok, the club values in the N hand are wasted, but if spades are 3-2 and hearts are no worse than 4-1 this looks like 13 tricks. Draw trump in 3 or maybe 4 rounds, rough a spade to establish that suit, and you take 6+6+2+0=13 tricks.  So it seems we want to be there.


I tried it again with the bots, where I forced the initial response of 2 !S. N bid 2NT, I bid 3 !C, then I turned it over to them .This time they got to 6 !H instead of the 4 !H that they got to when I left them entirely on their own, but they still did not get to 7.

Getting to 6 !H was worth 75%. Some were in 6 !S which makes, but without the overtrick.
https://tinyurl.com/yxmskjgf

Do you agree that on the NS cards we we wish to be in 7 !H?
Any ideas about how to bid it?
The problem, I think, is that 7 !H is a really good contract because you can reasonably hope to take six tricks in the spades suit. The Soloway 2 !S, followed by !H support,  shows a good spades suit but it hardly promises a likely six tricks opposite a stiff spot. So it is the S hand that must decide whether to go to 7.
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blubayou

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Re: How? And should we?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2020, 07:50:19 PM »
Certainly looks like a 5 or 7 deal (4-or-7?).   The Soloway jump-shift will take care of everything except getting one partner or the other to see 13 tricks, via:   
1H                                             2S
2NT [forced if not raising]            3C [shortness with hearts]
3H   [ hope that is legit?]             4C [first in C]
4NT                                            5S [2 with HQ]


Now north knows all the key everything are present --  or does he?   Does the re-shortness surely mean void? I need some research there concerning stiff aces of clubs.   Anyway how can he gamble the rest of partner's goodies take care of his trash?


I see no way to let SOUTH know what he needs to know --  the 100 honors in trumps, in lieu of high card fit(s)   'Fraid I will have to settle for the 75%,  as I see things now:(
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 07:52:55 PM by blubayou »
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Masse24

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Re: How? And should we?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2020, 08:16:49 PM »
Yes, looking at the hands, we want to be in 7 !H.

I'm not sure I would get there. However, you asked how to bid it. Here is one possibility:

1 !H  – 1 !S
2 !D  – 3 !Ca
3 !Db – 3 !Hc
3NTd – 5 !Ce
5 !Sf – 6 !Cg
6 !Dh – 7 !Hi

a) 4th suit forcing.
b) Waiting. Allowing 4sf bidder room.
c) Suit-agreement.
d) Serious 3NT. Willing to cooperate in slam move.
e) Exclusion RKC.
f) Two keys, no queen.
g) King ask (and obvious interest in grand)
h) !D King, unable to bid grand.
i) That's okay, I can bid it!
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kenberg

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Re: How? And should we?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2020, 10:23:05 PM »
Todd, your auction get NS to a place where S can see 13 tricks amd that's great. 
But I am not at all sure I, sitting North,  would bid 3 !D there, in fact I am pretty sure I would not.

1!H - 1 !S
2 !D -3 !C
?
We are in a game force but I, as N, do not yet know about hearts and I am wondering where to play this game. I have a minimum hand but I am holding !C QJx. So I think I would say 3NT over 3 !D:

A. Bidding 3NT says pard, I don't have any better ideas and I do stop clubs. I really hope we can take 9 tricks after the club lead, but at least I do stop them.

And

B. I think 3 !D  by me would be taken as : Pard, I don't know where we are going to play this but unless you, my partner, can stop clubs we cannot be playing this in NT.

I would be seriously worried that if I bid 3 !D partner's next call will be 4 !D after which the perhaps optimal spot of 3NT is no longer available.  It's not so much that I think 3 !D would show a great enthusiasm for diamonds, it's more that I think it show a strong disinterest in NT. After I, North, open 1!h and rebid 2 !D, partner cannot hope for all that much in the club suit but he might well be wondering  "Can we play in NT or can we not?" and then I think 3 !D would be taken as "No we cannot".


It's a tough hand. You mentioned you were not sure you would get to 7 !H. I am thinking it might be a little too far away. Blu is also struggling to see just how it might go.  Maybe it just doesn't go.
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Masse24

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Re: How? And should we?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2020, 11:38:06 PM »
Ken,

Understood about 3 !D. I, too, may very well bid 3NT there. I think it pegs the hand shape perfectly as exactly 1=5=4=3, since with 0=5=4=4 opener's first rebid is 2 !C, not 2 !D. At the table, I'm sure that is what I would do.

However, this auction (assuming the 1 !H - 1 !S start) gets very awkward very quickly due to the uncomfortable compression of space required by the 4SF 3 !C. To alleviate this, it seems possible to use the next step as a waiting bid to permit responder to explain why he used 4SF. In effect, opener is getting out of responder's way. USP (Useful Space Principle) and all that.

Anyway, I'm not sure I get to the grand. I was simply trying to cobble together a reasonable auction to find the grand.  ;)

Added: I created a Bridgewinners poll thinking one or two good players might choose 3 !D after the 4sF bid. I knew that 3NT would be the majority choice, but it is instead--unanimous. So it appears as though my "twist" at that point in the auction is unrealistic.

Like I said, I doubt that I find the grand.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 04:04:30 AM by Masse24 »
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Masse24

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Re: How? And should we?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2020, 01:27:41 AM »
What about:

1 !H - 5 !C?

A direct Exclusion bid?

A bit contrived, and not something I would do with this hand. But it gets you there!
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kenberg

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Re: How? And should we?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2020, 02:44:24 AM »
Yes, maybe. The hand was played in one of the daylongs. They give you samples of what happened. At 5 out of 54 tables they reached 7 !H for 96%.. The sample they gave was:

1 !H - 4NT (key card)
5 !H - 5 !S (Q ask)  (and we might ask why, since S is looking at the Q)
6 !H - 7 !H

So I guess he just hoped the two keys were the !H AK.

I like your auction much better. No kidding, I hear you say!

There were 17 of us in 6 !H scoring 75%, and after that there were 8 in 6 !S making, plus 3 in 6 !H who somehow managed to take only 12 tricks. They got 49%

So all's well that ends well, but i have been thinking about it on and off. Probably time to stop thinking about  it.

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blubayou

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Re: How? And should we?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2020, 03:36:19 AM »
hilarious-- so we find Trump AK,  and IF both of us remember how to kings-ask...the diamond king.  checkmate; we are at 6 diamonds :)  .........P.S.  WOW ken  how can one make not-seven, but yes-six??   i couldntfind a way!


« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 03:39:45 AM by blubayou »
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kenberg

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Re: How? And should we?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2020, 02:05:54 PM »
You have to work at it yo hold yourself to 12 tricks in a heart contract. Or maybe the right phrase is not work at it and just play without thinking.

As to bidding, I think we overstate the usefulness of tools. Or maybe that should also be re-phrased. Thoughtful players who thoroughly study the ins and outs of tools and discussed them thoroughly with their partner might well find them useful but the rest of us might sometimes just need to make our best guess and hope for good fortune. On the hand I gave, slam seemed like a good bet as soon as partner opened and I looked at my hand. A grand seemed possible but hard to evaluate. Just bidding 6, and in hearts rather than spades, was good enough in the game at hand. When I go to the Bermuda Bowl, that will be in my next lifetime, I will bring better tools.

Here is another hand to illustrate this point:



!S void
!H AKQ73
!D QJ54
!C AQ42


Partner opens 1 !S, I respond 2 !H, partner bids 3 !H.

As before, this is matchpoints and you are playing with the robots. The opponents are vul, we are not.

Well, maybe partner has the !D AK and we can make 13 tricks in hearts. Maybe partner has !D xx and we make 11 tricks. What to do? Probably this is a hand where tools should be brought to bear, but I just bid 6 !H. Maybe I'll get a favorable lead.

The opening lead is the !D 2 and dummy comes down:

!S AKQ97
!H 964
!D A763
!C 3


!S void
!H AKQ73
!D QJ54
!C AQ42

Uh huh. If that lead is from !D Kx2 or !D Kxx2, I might be able to bring in 13 tricks. For example, three spades, five hearts, two diamonds brings me to ten tricks, so the !C A and two ruffs would do it.

But it seems 13 tricks is a stretch. I went up with the A. Good choice, since the deuce was a stiff. I took three spades, five hearts, two diamond, the !C A and one ruff for 12 tricks.

Tools or no tools, it's not clear how many tricks are there, and it's not clear how to play the hand. I guessed right. It wasn't a crazy guess, I have a good hand, partner opened the bidding. My spade void is not a plus but there should be a fair play for 12 tricks and there was. But yes, if  in my next life I am competitive in the Bermuda Bowl I would try for a  more scientific approach. That's for my next life.

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Well, I also very much liked Mighty Mouse. What a mouse!



« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 02:43:19 PM by kenberg »
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