Author Topic: This hand has been troubling me  (Read 3168 times)

wackojack

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This hand has been troubling me
« on: May 12, 2020, 10:02:05 AM »
 !S AJ75
 !H J83
 !D 85
 !C AKQ2

 !S -
 !H AQ1072
 !D AK972
 !C J63

 Vul v Non vul:
1 !H - (pass) - 2 !C - (3 !S)
6 !C - (pass) - 6  !H -all pass

This was an iac team match and I was declarer.  Don't ask me why partner responded 2 !C and not 1 !S because I don't know.  The lead was the 8  !S.  I had better tell you that I went down and it was made in the other room.  So losing a humiliating 17 imps.

I had better tell you that the declarer at the other table made because of a defensive slip.  That is not to say that this line was not the best. Any volunteers?   


Masse24

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Re: This hand has been troubling me
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2020, 11:11:37 AM »
Hi, Jack,

I just woke up. Pre-caffeine. To begin, I too would respond 2 !C , bypassing the spades. This is not an uncommon treatment. You do not lose the spade suit. You do not deny a spade suit. Playing 2/1, it immediately establishes a GF, making the subsequent auction far smoother. 

Imagine the following:
1 !H - 1 !S - 2 !D - ?? Now, to force game, you are forced to bid 3 !C and you still haven't agreed trump.
Extending the auction: 1 !H - 1 !S - 2 !D - 3 !C - 3NT - ?? You want to play in hearts and at leat sniff at slam. But how?

I have work to do, but will add more later.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 11:17:19 AM by Masse24 »
“Kindness is the only service that will stand the storm of life and not wash out. It will wear well and will be remembered long after the prism of politeness or the complexion of courtesy has faded away.” Abraham Lincoln

jcreech

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Re: This hand has been troubling me
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2020, 12:03:54 PM »
D--n you Jack,  I had already written notes about this hand for Creature's Features.  Oh well, it still won't show up for months.

I was the declarer at the other table, and I should have gone down, but for a different reason than you.

Our auction was without interference : 
1 !H - 2 !C
2 !D - 2 !H
3 !C - 3 !S   -With 3 !C, I was trying to show fit and suggest spade shortness.
4 !D - 4NT
5 !S - 6 !H    -I had a choice of responses to RKC - 5NT to show two with a void or 5 !S to show two with the queen.  I decided to show 2 with the queen because partner had cued the spade control and I had already advertised shortness.

If I recall, you won the spade lead in dummy and led a small heart for a finesse.  That is where you went wrong.  You probably thought you wanted a big heart to ruff the third diamond, which is reasonable, but became problematic when the hearts were 4-1 offside.  When you led a second heart and RHO showed out, you flew the ace and now there was a trump tenace position over your remaining trump because you still needed to ruff a diamond hoping for the 3-3.

I got a club lead, which I also won in dummy.  I led the !H J to retain the lead in dummy.  When the jack held, I repeated the finesse.  RHO showed out, and I clicked low before I thought.  Oops!  I instantly realized that now if LHO wins and exits a trump, I have no play.  I should have gone up with the ace and started the diamonds.  It wasn't a misclick, so I had to just cross my fingers.  LHO played low, so I breathed again.  Now three rounds of diamonds, return to my hand to pull a trump and claim.
A stairway to nowhere is better than no stairway at all.  -Kehlog Albran

kenberg

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Re: This hand has been troubling me
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2020, 12:33:14 PM »
Never mind, I can't read.

I agree with Todd about the 2 !C. Shows some clubs, establishes the game force, he expects to show hearts next and so he has shown a good hand with a heart fit and at least something in clubs all below the game level. It seems odd at first, but it has merit and I think it is now the way to go.

As to the play.

That 3 !C bid surely influences the play. I am assuming that the partnership does not have any detailed agreement about it so we all have to interpret it as we think right. Over 2 !C, a 2NT bid by Rho would be two suited, but I assume this is also. Who knows? But let's assume Rho has !s and !D. If he has six !D then Lho would have led his stiff and if he has seven !D he probably would just have bid them instead of bidding 3 !C. If he has five !D and the !S KQ I think I can make this. Well, maybe. I will assume Lho could well have four hearts, but I am not assuming he has five. So I ruff the !S in hand, cash one high !H and lead a small !H. The plan is to establish !H with a loss of one trick. Then there will be  1+4+2+4=11 established tricks. Losing the !H rectifies the count, and, if I am right about Rho having five !D and the !S KQ we are set for the !S - !D squeeze. For example, if on the second !H Lho puts up the Q and Rho shows out, then Lho leads something. Maybe another !S. I go up with the !A, tossing a !D from hand, cash the !H J, come back to my had with a !C (probably safest) draw trump.

It would be good to know just what the 3 !C bid was, but lacking any firm knowledge, I think I go with the !S - !D two-suiter.

It's simply in the nature of IAC play, and I think on-line play in general, that bids are made that are a little uncertain in meaning. I think the right approach is to just accept it. Maybe the 3 !C was intended to show a !S - !D two-suiter with a !C void. Maybe. But if it did, then it seems  Lho didn't know that either.   Or maybe Rho has an eight card !S suit with a !C void. I suppose 3 !C might even show clubs, but who would ever play that a !C bid shows !C ?
But I am guessing he has a !S - !D two-suiter and just figured 3 !C would get his partner to bid !S or !D.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 02:55:30 PM by kenberg »
Ken

Masse24

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Re: This hand has been troubling me
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2020, 01:22:26 PM »
Ken. Coffee!  ;)
“Kindness is the only service that will stand the storm of life and not wash out. It will wear well and will be remembered long after the prism of politeness or the complexion of courtesy has faded away.” Abraham Lincoln

Masse24

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Re: This hand has been troubling me
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2020, 01:26:16 PM »
By the way, Jim, I am in complete agreement with your 3 !C.

Pretty much standard (though not universal) to show shape with your third bid when a major fit--in a GF auction--is found at the two-level.
“Kindness is the only service that will stand the storm of life and not wash out. It will wear well and will be remembered long after the prism of politeness or the complexion of courtesy has faded away.” Abraham Lincoln

kenberg

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Re: This hand has been troubling me
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2020, 02:54:50 PM »
Ken. Coffee!  ;)
Ah yes. 3 !S, not 3 !C Well, at least now the auction makes more sense.  But I sort of liked the problem with the 3 !C call.

Having now had morning coffee and then going out, risking my life to shop for groceries  :) , I can try to think of what I would do afer the 3 !S call.

Well, maybe some more coffee first to relax. Shopping can be exhausting. The deli now pre-packages and there was a line so I hit some other aisles and came back. Good, only one guy there. Bad, he took at least five minutes to pick out his package. C'mon, there are three maybe four kinds of cheese and a a choice of turkey or ham.  Roast beef will not magically appear. I kept my six feet distance and let it him dither.
Ken

kenberg

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Re: This hand has been troubling me
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2020, 04:53:42 PM »
Now that I am aware that Rho bid 3 !S, what to do? Well, maybe we can bring in the hearts without loss, then we have 12 tricks. But probably we will lose a heart and we need to find the 12th trick somewhere else. Presumably with a !D ruff  So I suppose go up with the !S A pitching a !D,  and, as Jim did with the !C lead, play the !H J. Maybe Rho has the Q. If so, you are not yet home, but things as looking up. If it goes J-small-small-Q, as it will at the table,  then we need that !D ruff, Probably Lho leads another !S, ruff it, play the !H A. Rho shows out. You are still alive. Play AK and another !D, hoping you can ruff the third !D, return to hand with the !C J, draw trump and claim.


It seems reasonable.
Ken

jcreech

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Re: This hand has been troubling me
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2020, 06:46:49 PM »
More coffee Ken - opps have !H K not Q. lol
A stairway to nowhere is better than no stairway at all.  -Kehlog Albran

kenberg

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Re: This hand has been troubling me
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2020, 10:04:31 PM »
Maybe I need to quit!!!
One of those big cards.
Same idea, run the J. The hand seems to work out, even with four to the K9 offside.
Nice of the diamonds to split. Those red rhombus like things. They are called diamonds, right?
Ken

wackojack

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Re: This hand has been troubling me
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2020, 11:51:59 AM »
How about this for the best line?
♠ AJ75
♥ J85
♦ 85
♣ AKQ2

♠ -
♥ AQ1072
♦ AK972
♣ J63

We have 4 certain ♥ tricks.  Add 1♠ +2 ♦s + 4 ♣s  = 11.   So, we need 1 more.  Can we make 12 tricks even if ♦ break 4-2 and the K♥ is offside.  I think the answer is yes. 

Take ♠ lead with Ace and throw a ♣ from hand.  Play AK♦ hoping all follow.  OK if they break 5-1 you are gone.  If all follow play a 3rd ♦.   East is much more likely than West to show out and you ruff with the 8♥.

1.   If ♦s break 3-3 you run the J♥ which loses (eventually) to the K and your 12th trick is the 4th ♦. 
2.   If East has 2 ♦s.  Then you are down If East has the 9♥ and not the K♥. 
3.   If West shows out on the 3rd ♦ as is less likely, then you ruff small and make for any 4-1 ♥ break.

So this makes on some 4-2  !D breaks as well as the 3-3  !D breaks when the K  !H is off side. 

kenberg

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Re: This hand has been troubling me
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2020, 02:27:12 PM »
You might be right, Jack. My first thought was that "No, surely it is better to win the !S A, throwing a !D from hand, and then run the !H J". But there are problems with that. For example, if you the J holds, then what? If you now lead a small heart to the Q when Rho plays low, Lho might well now take his K and produce a third heart. Goodbye !D ruff. So maybe after the !H j holds play a small !H to the A? Assume everyone has followed. Now what? You can ruff a !D on the board but you will still have one more !D in hand. Of course of !D were 3-3 that !D is good.  But if Lho started with three hearts and four diamonds, you cannot now clear the trump, he will cash his !D. But maybe it's ok. Lho should have at most three !S, probably exactly three, and that gives him three clubs. So you play off the three clubs and then pitch the remaining !D on the fourth !C. This is not going to work if Rho had !H Kxx all along, he will ruff the third !C and you have no way back to the board.


There are a lot of options. Maybe your way is best. I am not sure it is, but I also am not sure it isn't.
Ken