Author Topic: Yesterday, an example  (Read 4359 times)

kenberg

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Yesterday, an example
« on: May 24, 2017, 02:39:57 PM »
This one was all on me, so I feel comfortable using it as an illustration.

http://tinyurl.com/lwmmjdu

The problem arises at me second turn to bid. I am a passed hand, Pam has opened a fourth position 1S, I have to choose.

The problem? We have no agreements as to what means what. This is not unusual playing on BBO. As I often do when playing online, I try for a bid that, while not ideal, at least might land us on our feet. My 2S is an underbid, I did it knowingly. Oops. If they take their hearts they hold us to 11 tricks, with the club lead Pam can and did make all 13. Not a good score, as you can imagine.

There was friendly discussion afterward.  Pam mentioned that she might have made a game try over my 2S. Perhaps so, but since I cannot, on the bidding,  be holding the actual hand that I held I would not push that at all. Once I bid 2S, we are not reaching 4S.

Many play Bergen, including after third and fourth position openings. Ok, if so my call is 3D. Unless we are playing reverse Bergen, then my call is 3C. I like Drury, in which case my call is either 2C or 2D depending on the Drury details. I considered raising 1S to 3S but of course if we are playing Bergen that would be taken as weak. West mentioned that he would have bid 3C, not as Bergen but as a fit showing jump. That's probably the best call, but only if we are playing fit showing jumps. Pam said that she would have taken a jump, 1S to 3S, as a LR, so that would have worked.

This was a friendly game so I doubt anyone would have objected if I had bid 3S and announced to the table that it was a limit raise.  Often we play that way and it has its merits, but it can start to feel like kitchen bridge.

My usual approach is to just accept as inevitable that there will be some communication issues when I play online. I opt for the most direct, even if not really precise. Hence my (disastrous) 2S call.

I will close with another example, quite different:


http://tinyurl.com/lpuffe7

After the hand, Curls said maybe she should have bid 4S. Not at all, in my opinion. I am holding the heart Q and I could see that would be valuable, so I gave consideration to raising 3S to 4S. I didn't do it.  I don't think either of us made a mistake here. The opponents have the AK of clubs and the A of diamonds, after which the spade K is onside.  If it is offside, 4S is down. For that matter, of spades are 4-1 there could still be a problem, although probably solvable. There are five tricks in hearts and four in spades, we need one more.  We cannot play four rounds of spades and then lead a diamond toward the K since they will rise and cash clubs. But a couple of rounds of trump and then, if spades are 4-1,  a diamond toward the K would probably bring us home. Anyway, 4S is  hardly a safe contract since it needs the spade K onside and maybe a little luck elsewhere. .  Failing to  reach an iffy 4S is is not something to fret over.


I put in this last hand because I think players, on BBO and elsewhere, often do not make this critical distinction: On the first board listed, surely we belong in 4S. On this second  hand, 4S makes but it does not follow that, on our cards alone,  we should be there.

I hope I have not upset anyone by posting these hands. The first was, as mentioned, all on me. The second one makes 4S only because Lady Luck was smiling.
Ken

Curls77

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Re: Yesterday, an example
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2017, 04:56:45 PM »
Great post as always Ken : )

1st example: I don't think any of players at that table would object if you asked Pam (before making your decision what to bid) if Drury is ok, and if so - which one. Great many players that often play in IAC announce “please feel free to discuss”, as games in IAC are hardly Bermuda Bowl competitive, but rather great practice and friendly atmosphere (which was somehow ruined by player that replaced you, but luckily they left soon afterwards).

Another option is use Joe's sheet made exactly for casual pardships. It's still available at: https://tinyurl.com/jyw73px


As for 2nd example, I am in constant war with hand evaluation, and often, in fear to not underbid , I overbid, but that time chicken in me won and I settled for 3S.

Looking forward to hear opinions from others, thanks for posting!

infidel

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Re: Yesterday, an example
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2017, 05:09:12 PM »
ran afoul of the posting software on this one: I had a reply typed out, hit "post," and was "warned" there was another response posted while I was typing, and suggesting that I take a look before posting. I did so, then tried to return to what I had, and it appears to have vanished into the ether, so trying to reconstruct the previous "brilliance."  ;D

On Ken's first hand, I have a pet theory regarding Drury: I play in after any 1M in third position, but only after 1S in fourth (therefore don't shade 1H openers in 4th seat).  The rationale is that opening in 4th seat carries the risk of competing against the passout; and without the spade suit, opening is likely to awaken sleeping spades in somebody's hand. We then have the common problem of choosing to let the opponents play in 2S, losing to the passout if it doesn't make, or taking the push to 3H, losing to the passout if THAT doesn't make. I don't open the sort of trash in 4th that I do in third, even with the spade suit, but will cheat down a couple of points if I have a reasonable spade suit.

kenberg

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Re: Yesterday, an example
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2017, 07:04:02 PM »
3rd seat and 4th seat are very different, agreed. But they have this in common: Partner is a passed hand. This leads to opportunities.
The given hand is an example. technically, it's a 9 count. But surely it's worth a limit raise in values. If I start with a Drury 2C and partner rebids 2S, I drop it. If he responds 2D I now have some choices. With some hands I can still rebid 2S, the message being that I have a limit raise but barely. Probably only three trump. With this hand I might well bid 3S over 2D. It's a good hand, and partner should have at least a little better than a minimum opener for his 2D bid. After all, I am a passed hand and if what he has is just barely an honest 1S, we do not have game. So I like my hand opposite his 2D. Or, with discussion, I can now bid 3C over his 2D. this could reasonably be something like what I have. If he just barely has his 2D call and if my 3C is not improving his hand, he can get out in 3S.

The idea is that the Drury 2C can be useful even after a 4th seat opening. P-1S-2C-2S being a hand that qualified for a fourth seat opening, but is really not interested in game opposite a partner who could not open the bidding.

Still, I have played that Drury is on only after third hand openings. Clearly that is where it is the most useful.
Ken

infidel

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Re: Yesterday, an example
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2017, 09:04:11 PM »
that's what I played until VERY recently: a partner finally convinced me that light opening in 4th, WITH SPADES, is a good idea; so if the opening may be "one of those," then Drury makes sense.