Author Topic: What is your line?  (Read 5372 times)

jcreech

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What is your line?
« on: September 11, 2019, 06:48:58 PM »
This came up in a spur match, I kibitzed at one table.  This was a push board in the match, but I wanted to see if anyone would take a different line than what the two declarers did during the match. 

The state of the match is close; 15 to 12. And this is board 6 of 10.

You have bid to 4 !S from the hand with the long spades with no opposing bidding and received the !C 9 as your opening lead.  The other opponent will contribute the 10.

!S Q                   !S AKJ543
!H J9642            !H Q
!D QT63             !D AJ5
!C QJ5                !C AK4

Plan your play.
A stairway to nowhere is better than no stairway at all.  -Kehlog Albran

kenberg

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 09:47:35 PM »
Win the !C withe A, !S 3 to the Q.

Assuming everyone follows, we are making your contract unless diamonds are 6-0. So assume that they are not 6-0.

Small !D to the A.

!S A.

If everyone follows to the second round of spades, draw trump, play on diamonds, making 5.

Assuming that everyone followed to the !S Q at T2, and that the !D back to hand was  not ruffed, we can even handle a 5-1 trump split. After the !D to the A, assume that someone shows out on the lead of the !S A.  We draw three more trump, leaving one out, and play the !D J. They can win but we have two trump and they have one trump so no matter whether they draw one of our trump and then force you to ruff a heart, or whether they just play on hearts forcing us to ruff, you play on our winners in !C and !D.  They get a !S, a !H, a !D.


This appears to work against all but the most extreme distributions.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 09:50:29 PM by kenberg »
Ken

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2019, 10:18:15 PM »
Win the !C withe A, !S 3 to the Q.

Small !D to the A.

This.

No !D finesse.
“Kindness is the only service that will stand the storm of life and not wash out. It will wear well and will be remembered long after the prism of politeness or the complexion of courtesy has faded away.” Abraham Lincoln

jcreech

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2019, 11:57:07 AM »
The full hand follows:

            !S 82
            !H K873
            !D K98742
            !C T

!S Q                   !S AKJ543
!H J9642            !H Q
!D QT63             !D AJ5
!C QJ5                !C AK4

            !S T972
            !H AT5
            !D
            !C 987632

My line in real time, starts by winning the opening lead with the A, lead a spade to the Q, then finesse the !D J, would have failed just as everyone else's have.  But I am not certain that is the right line to take.  You only need five spades, not six, and this is IMPs not MPs. 

One of my pet theories is that hands have substantial symmetry, it is largely trying to figure out where the symmetry is for a given hand.  Here the majors are split badly and the minors split reasonably.  So the fear should be that the opposite is true for the opponent's hands; bad splits in the minors, reasonable splits in the majors.  If that is the case, then you should win the first club in hand to keep transportation, then play four rounds of trump.  You give up the trump trick, you retain the chance to make an overtrick when the !D K is onside, and you avoid the crossruff that actually happens if you don't take the children off the street.
A stairway to nowhere is better than no stairway at all.  -Kehlog Albran

kenberg

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2019, 02:36:14 PM »
So: If spades are no worse than 4-2, I can guarantee the contract by winning the opening lead in hand and then laying down the !S  AKJ.  But if diamonds are not 6-0, and !S are not 6-0,  then I can make this by leading a !S to the Q and leading a !D back to the A.

Probably I am going down if spades are 6-0 so let's forget that, at least for the moment.  Spades being 5-1 is a more likely danger than diamonds being 6-0 so that argues for worrying about 5-1 spades rather than 6-0 diamonds. But even if spades are 5-1 there is then  the back-up possibility that the !D K is onside, in which case the contract still comes home after playing !S AKJ and finding  spades 5-1.

A 5-1 spade split should happen about 6 times as often as a 6-0 diamond split so although the possibility of a later !D finesse helps, I don't see it as helping enough. So, I go with protecting against 5-1 spades instead of 6-0 diamonds.

Or so it seems to me. In my response I noted that I needed everyone to follow to the !S lead at T2 and for the !D at T3  to not be ruffed. I considered playing off !S AKJ to guard against the !D ruff but I figured the 5-1 !S split was a more likely danger than the 6-0 !D split. I sill think so.

The fact that our spades are 6-1 betwen us does not, for any reason I can see, make it more likely that the opposing hands have extreme splits in their suits. But the play of the !C T at T1 strongly suggests that their clubs are 6-1 and, for that reason I would decline the !D finesse.  A losing finesse, a club ruff, a heart back, another club ruff seems to be far the biggest danger on this hand.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 02:42:10 PM by kenberg »
Ken

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 03:00:13 PM »
Yeah, the 6-0 !D split (around 1% a priori) is not on my radar.

The bad !S break is equally possible, yes? Maybe this "super-safe" play is best? But I'd want to see the math on it. 
“Kindness is the only service that will stand the storm of life and not wash out. It will wear well and will be remembered long after the prism of politeness or the complexion of courtesy has faded away.” Abraham Lincoln

kenberg

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2019, 01:25:06 AM »
Yeah, the 6-0 !D split (around 1% a priori) is not on my radar.

The bad !S break is equally possible, yes? Maybe this "super-safe" play is best? But I'd want to see the math on it.

The line we took after winning the first !C in hand, leading a small spade to the Q, then, assuming all follow at T2,  leading a diamond to the A, works as long as everyone has at least one spade and at least one diamond. Moreover, although I did not address this part, it has a chance if at T2 our Lho shows out of spades. We will now be losing two spades and a heart, but if the !D K is onside we are still ok. So this seems to me to be pretty good. Failure if !D are 6-0, failure if !S are 6-0 and the !D K is offside, otherwise success.

It doesn't work here, but that would not prevent me from trying it the next time this arises
Ken

jcreech

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2019, 07:43:10 PM »
I actually brought the hand up because dummy said something about not playing the hand safely to make.  Declarer took Ken's line of leading to the !D J.  At the time, I thought the only differences between what I would do and what declarer did involved winning in dummy or not leading a higher diamond to make the finesse repeatable. 

When I thought more about that comment, another line came to mind - lead a heart to create an entry to finish pulling trump without showing more of the minors.  They tried that at the other table.  It also led to the same result. 

So it may have been a case of resulting their partner.
A stairway to nowhere is better than no stairway at all.  -Kehlog Albran

kenberg

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2019, 01:38:21 AM »
I actually brought the hand up because dummy said something about not playing the hand safely to make.  Declarer took Ken's line of leading to the !D J.  At the time, I thought the only differences between what I would do and what declarer did involved winning in dummy or not leading a higher diamond to make the finesse repeatable. 

When I thought more about that comment, another line came to mind - lead a heart to create an entry to finish pulling trump without showing more of the minors.  They tried that at the other table.  It also led to the same result. 

So it may have been a case of resulting their partner.

Ken's line was to lead a !D to the A! Playing to the  J is high risk as I mentioned. If the finesse loses it's then !C ruff, back with a !H, another !C ruff.

As near as I can see, there is no line that will work regardless of the distribution of the opponent's cards.  Assume !C were 6-1 originally, as seems to be indicated by the T at T1. So we have to go with the line that is most likely to work. It's easy to think of arrangements where playing spades from the top won't work, so spade to the Q at T2 seems right. If Lho shows out on the spade at T2, you will lose two !S tricks to the 6-0 split. And you will lose a heart.So you have to hope the !D k is onside.If everyone follows to the !S at T2, then you are in business if you can get back to your hand to play three more top trump. How? Well , small !D to the A works unless !D are 6-0. So any other route has to solve the 6-0 problem. Surely not a !H since clubs can be ruffed on the right and diamonds on the left.

There is one possible problem. Maybe clubs were not 6-1 originally, and assume Lho has a !D void. Could be, I suppose. Then at T3: !D A is ruffed, back to Rho with a !H, Rho cashes the !D K and then presents his pard with another ruff. Could be. But that requires clubs to be tame and !D to be 6-0. Surely it's better to just hope both opponent's have one !D and lead to the A.


So: If dummy thought declarer should have played safely, declarer can agree and ask what that safe line is. I still think spade to the Q, diamond back to the A is the line most likely to bring in ten tricks. Just not this time.
Ken

jcreech

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2019, 10:47:57 AM »
Sorry Ken about the misattribution.

I went back to the other hand, and realized that the North hand overcalled in diamonds, yet South still led the !C 9.  That might have changed the calculus enough to try pulling trump first.  At the table, they were clearly concerned about a diamond ruff, because they were unwilling to take an early marked diamond finesse.  Yet they were unwilling to give up on trying to build transportation to their hand.











b
A stairway to nowhere is better than no stairway at all.  -Kehlog Albran

kenberg

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2019, 11:26:06 AM »
A diamond overcall? That wasn't mentioned. Yes, that would change things a good deal!

More later, breakfast is ready.

Ok, back.

After the !D overcall Lho has at most oe !D and when he doesn't lead it he has no !D. So forget !S to the Q and !D back to either the J or the A.

Yes, I think win the club in hand and lay down the !S AKJ. If spades are no worse than 4-2 we presumably have an overtrick losing one spade and one heart. If spades are 5-1 there might be control problems, probably there are.

If the auction began 1 !S - Pass - 1NT - 2 !D and they end in 4 !S, declarer should thank his Rho for that overcall since it clarified the play of the hand. Well, he should thank him quietly to himself.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 01:47:36 PM by kenberg »
Ken

jcreech

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2019, 03:59:02 PM »
No deception intended.  The table I watched had no opposing bidding, and was the source of the comment about playing safely to make.

The diamond overcall came at the other table, the one I did not watch, but went back to see how they played the hand.  After winning on board and cashing the stiff trump, they exited with a heart.  That is when I posted my previous comment - to mention the overcall and provide the additional context available to the other declarer (who still went down).
A stairway to nowhere is better than no stairway at all.  -Kehlog Albran

kenberg

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Re: What is your line?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2019, 05:05:04 PM »
I see. I think that the !D overcall should steer declarer in the right direction. Without the overcall, spade to the Q back to the hand with a diamond to the Ace seems right. After the overcall, surely he will not do that so what should he do? If clubs were dealt 6-1 then spade to the Q and a heart will result in a cross ruff.  Lho has a diamond void so he has at least five of something.  If Lho has five spades to go with his diamond void am I making this? I doubt it. There are possibilities but still I doubt it. I think I would go with !S AKJ. I can make this anytime spades are no worse than 4-2 by playing AKJ, so I don't want to go down by trying for some unlikely protection against 5-1.

Seems right. I think.

On hands like these, I think dummy should understand that there are choices and go easy on criticizing declarer.  Discussing it later, if both wish to, is fine.

An interesting hand.
Ken