Off shape X

[Curls77]

In one of recent IAC Spur Teams Matches, board 8 (of 10), all white, this hand was dealt. West deals, score is almost 4-6 imps.

                                : KT63
                                : KQ652
                                : J6
                                : A2

: KQ643                                       : AQ92
: A987                                         : A974
: T4                                              : AQ42
: Q3                                             : K
                                : J5
                                : JT8
                                : KT8
                                : JT765

Many that kibbed found strange that at both tables offshape double came, altho auctions differed:
Table 1:  P 1H X 2H  -- P P X P   --  3C P 3D
Table 2: P 1H X P  --  2C P 2N

Is it wise with close score, IMPs, pard passed hand to bid anything with E holding? Or perhaps pass first bid then come later if 2H gets back to you?

[wackojack]

Looks like 2 packs of cards have been scrambled together Curls

[jcreech]

                                : KT63
                                : KQ652
                                : J6
                                : A2

: 874                                         : AQ92
: 3                                            : A974
: 9753                                       : AQ42
: Q9843                                       : K
                                : J5
                                : JT8
                                : KT8
                                : JT765


Table 1:  P  1H  X  2H 
             P    P   X   P   
            3C   P  3D

Table 2: P   1H  X   P 
           2C   P  2N

First, I suspect that I have the hand corrected in an appropriate manner.  Sanya, please check against the hand record you have retained.  I also restructured the bidding so I could follow it better, hopefully, it will help others as well.

Second, particularly in a close match, you want to take what is considered to be ordinary actions, so the match remains close except where judgment and skill come into play.  With 16 useful (plus 3 not so useful) HCPs, it is hard to imagine not taking action with the East hand.  Although the takeout double is far from perfect, the hand has more than enough strength for a standard auction.

Third, I have a major disagreement with the West action at both tables.  With a hand as weak as the West hand, I would want to bid my longest suit and get out as cheaply as possible when having to take out partner's double.  It is understandable to bypass spades for fear of playing in a 4-3 fit, so I would expect a diamond bid.  Clubs make no sense at all unless there is a belief that partner has a 5 card club suit.  If you are willing to play in a 4-3, why not the near sure thing in spades; it has the added advantage of allowing partner to bid NT at the cheapest level, given strength, if inclined to do so.

Edited to bring down to 13 and up to same - thx Ken and

Drop my third comment because with 5 and 4 the choice of both East's now make sense.

[kenberg]

 
Ah ha, the hands are now right!

I can see E feeling he must do something and, with this many points 19 if the E hand holds up as cards are reassigned), the X is not crazy at all.Sure pard will probably bid 2C (if Lho passes) and then 2NT describes the strength. If that seems too aggressive then suppose I could overcall 1NT. I usually play a 1NT overcall as 15-18 and I have 19 but it seems fair to reduce the value of a stiff K a bit.

 

[wackojack]

Yes I had the East hand and was torn between a making 19 point overcall of 1NT  or the off-shape take-out double and correct to 2NT to show my strength if partner bid 2  .  I took the high road because we would be richly rewarded if partner held a 4 card    suit and  went for the take-out double.  At my table, South felt his hand was not worth a raise to 2  and passed, then partner had to bid 2  .  Next I made the slight overbid of 2NT.  Incidentally it would have been wrong to next bid 2  because that would show a good hand with long diamonds (GOSH) too strong to initially overcall 2  and so something like 18+ points.

At the other table, South did raise to 2  , West naturally passed (north also) now East with my hand at the other table safely make another take-out double and bid 3  over West's 3  which is no longer a GOSH because the 2nd take-out double negates this. 

3  is of course a much better contract than 2NT and was rewarded with a gain of 5 imps.     

[kenberg]

 

Specifically when the auction begins 1M-X-Pass-2 there are a lot of people who do not play the 2 call as being all that strong. Definitely a good five card (at least) suit though. The idea is that second seat, hearing 1M, might well have four cards in the other major and a hand that would justify a 2 call.  partner's 2 is limited in strength, he has good diamonds and decent values, playing 2 seems fine. Maybe X over 1 with:

Kxxx
x
KQJxxx
Ax

Something like that.  The hand is stronger than a simple 13 count suggests.

At any rate, I like the X with the intention of converting 2 to 2NT.  It's minimal for this action but I think it is right.



Now if, after X,  there is a raise to 2 and that gets passed back, what to do.  1 on my right, 2 on my left, I have four hearts. Ok, nothing is ever certain but I think partner has a stiff heart (at most).  Could he have fours spades? Maybe. With Kxxx and a stiff heart I would expect 2 to be bid. Still, he might have four spades so I suppose I double again.  If he has four spades the hand takes care of itself. If he does not have four spades, then, assuming at most one heart, he has at least nine cards in the minors and it's a good bet, since i have four diamonds and only one club, that his long minor is clubs. If he has QJxxxx I want to leave him in 3 . Might he have that? I said that with Kxxx and a stiff I think he would be 2 over 1 but that's at the 2 level.Would he have bid 3 over 1 2 with QJxxxx and a stiff ? Good question, maybe yes. Otoh, maybe with 5-4 in the minors he would have made a responsive X over 2 ? It's a bit of a guess whether to pull 3 to 3 . Holding only four cards? I might let him struggle in 3 . But no, 3 is best. Not that it is that easy to see how to make it, at least if the defense begins with a to the A, and then a shift to a small .

An interesting feature is that the raise to 2 really helps the opponents find the right spot.

 

[Curls77]

Mea Culpa of course ! Thanks Jim for fixing the hands : )
Be back read your replies after today's Dare, GL to those that will play !

[wackojack]

Specifically when the auction begins 1M-X-Pass-2 there are a lot of people who do not play the 2 call as being all that strong. Definitely a good five card (at least) suit though. The idea is that second seat, hearing 1M, might well have four cards in the other major and a hand that would justify a 2 call.  partner's 2 is limited in strength, he has good diamonds and decent values, playing 2 seems fine. Maybe X over 1 with:

Kxxx
x
KQJxxx
Ax

Yes indeed Ken.  And as I am sure you know it is called "Equal level conversion".  ELC Meaning that after making a take-out double of a major and partner bids clubs then if you convert to 2  which is an equal level to an overcall in 2  , then this does not show a big hand.  Then to show a  GOSH you would need to jump in  s after the take-out double.  If you reverse  and  and say make a take out double with 5 clubs and a singleton  .  Then if partner takes out into 2  you have to bid 3  (a level higher) to show your clubs.  This is not ELC and has to show a very strong hand.   

[kenberg]

Yes. Often misunderstandings occur in between. Converting 2 to 3 has to be strong since nobody yet suggested that there is a club fit and the 2 hand is limited in strength.  Consider:

 1 -  X - Pass - 2
Pass - 2

That gets tricky. After all, with five hearts and four spades second hand would like to make an effort to find a major suit fit. It's not as risky as converting 2 to 3 in after 1M-X-pass-2 but still something is needed.  I think the message of  1 -  X - Pass - 2   - Pass - 2 should be something like "I am prepared to play 2 ,  don't panic, but if you have three hearts and some values, say 7-9 highs, you could raise. "

ELC into the majors is a point on which I think there is no clear consensus. Converting 2 to 2 after  1M-X-pass-2 is, I think, a simpler situation. And, as you say, converting 2 to 3 has to be strong.