Author Topic: A strange Gambling 3NT  (Read 3330 times)

jcreech

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A strange Gambling 3NT
« on: October 25, 2018, 08:17:12 PM »
Dlr: East
Vul: N-S

          North
           !S 83
           !H 63
           !D AQT9
           !C QJ852

West                    East
 !S 9                     !S  QJT62
 !H K975               !H  8
 !D 85                   !D  K6432
 !C AKT974            !C  63

          South
           !S AK754
           !H AQJT42
           !D J7
           !C

Auction:
East      South   West   North       
    P        3 NT       P           P
    P

I am submitting this hand largely because I found the bidding perplexing. 

The pair was playing some Precision variation (but I was unaware of that when this hand came up).  3NT was alerted as gambling, and even with my rag of a West hand, I thought about balancing 4 !S, because typically a gambling 3NT is a solid minor and I might get a lucky fit. 

I got lucky by not bidding and finding us in the middle of a buzz saw.

I got unlucky because they were in the only makeable game.

I wasn’t going to bother with the play because with that opening bid, that dummy, and profiles that indicated beginners, I was dizzy trying to figure out what declarer held.  I suspect partner was in the same boat.  However, the play was more advanced than I normally would attribute to a beginner. 

Essentially, partner started a top !C, then shifted to a low !H.  Declarer then passed the J !D,  which I ducked.  Next declarer led another !D, going up with the A, and now gave up a !H.  Normally, I expect a beginner to repeat a “proven” finesse.  Then if we can keep him off dummy, there are a total of five losers. 

Going up with the A !D assured the contract. 
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 08:19:52 PM by jcreech »
A stairway to nowhere is better than no stairway at all.  -Kehlog Albran

kenberg

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Re: A strange Gambling 3NT
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2018, 06:11:44 PM »
I have heard of, perhaps I have even encountered, pairs who play a gambling 3NT to apply with any of the four suits. But even then this is weird. A six card heart suit missing the K? Really?

You didn't say whether this was online [Ah, I see that you say "profiles" so BBO I guess], so that presumably S self-alerted, or at the table, where presumably N alerted, but it seems to me that after the dummy is faced it is perfectly reasonable to ask them just what it is that they mean by saying the call is "gambling".

Playing on BBO I have at times become suspicious of just what is going on. And then maybe I look up their results at other times and places. As near as I can recall, it has always turned out that the pair just does a lot of weird things, some of which work, most of which don't. Still, I think that a pair that is taking enough time to learn a system such as Precision with a lot of artificial calls should also invest a little time in learning what an acceptable description of a convention should be. If they use "gambling" to mean "He bids 3NT whenever he feels like it and hopes for the best" then they should say so.


I assume that whether online or in person this was a game where the stakes, financial or psychological, were low. And so you just say "Oh well". I suppose everyone else was in 4H.  Oh well.

Oh. Maybe somewhat beginners, but not so much that they can't count to 9. Good duck.  Oh well. 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 06:28:45 PM by kenberg »
Ken

Masse24

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Re: A strange Gambling 3NT
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2018, 08:30:42 PM »
Gitelman wrote about this, though I'm not sure it was called the "Gitelman 3NT." I'll have to dig for it.

Anyway, it shows a good hand with 6-5 in the majors. I think the alert you received was misleading--if the Gitelman 3NT was intended.

Apparently, responder knew what they were playing based on the pass?

[Edit] Here is a brief mention of the Gitelman/Kokish 3NT (Icebreaker?) on Bridgewinners: http://bridgewinners.com/article/view/icebreaker-convention/
[Additional Edit] Gitelman jokingly refers to the 6-5 Majors convention as "Fred" here: https://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/7775-3nt-opening/

Interesting that the opps profiles read beginner, yet they knew that such a thing as a Gambling 3NT existed. With your opps' combination of stated skill level, misnamed alerts, and actual hands . . . good luck ever divining what they actually hold!   :o
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 09:07:44 PM by Masse24 »
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jcreech

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Re: A strange Gambling 3NT
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2018, 03:42:45 AM »
That is a really interesting find - a good 6-5 in the majors.  Hmm. 

Yes, it was on BBO.  I guess I did not mention that one profile indicated England and the other Thailand, which may add to the mystery.  The next hand, the same person opened 2 !D with a 4-4-1-4 (showing both majors, 11-15) leading to another good result for them.  I finished the board, but left after that.  I decided that the bridge gods were not with me against this partnership.

I don't have to have good results.  One of my best lessons was watching the artistry of Soloway and Hamman drill me for seven boards in a regional swiss.  Nonetheless, I like to know more about what the system I am facing than this partnership was willing to share. Eight partially consistent lines of system notes in a profile with this pair was not enough - particularly, when you are trying to pull things together between bids and/or plays.

In the end, it became a story worth telling, but involved two people I put on "Ignore" for the future.  Thanks for sharing your insights and findings guys.
A stairway to nowhere is better than no stairway at all.  -Kehlog Albran

bAbsG

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Re: A strange Gambling 3NT
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2018, 08:41:39 PM »
The 2!D opening was probably Mini-Roman.  I used to play that 2!D showed specifically 4414 11-15.  Others play it differently.

jcreech

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Re: A strange Gambling 3NT
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2018, 11:11:37 PM »
I've also played mini-Roman.  The alert clearly said both majors, but I also mis-remembered the opener's call - it was 2 !H.  It said nothing about other suits.  Below, that bid is consistent with the first profile.  It is interesting that with as much (different) detail each profile has, neither says anything about an opening 3NT.

The profile for one player is:

Precision
1C=16+
Replies 1D=0-8 (if then 1H opener promise 19+ Points) Rest is Natural 16-18 Points
All other Replies are Game on and Bid till fit or 3NT
1D=11-15 (5 Clubs or 5 Diamonds)
1H=11-15 (5 Plus Hearts)
1S=11-15 (5 Plus Spades)
1NT=12-15 (Flat)
2C= 4 Clubs & 4 of any Major Weak 4-10 Points (2D reply asking for what Major)
2D= Transfer to Hearts 6+ Weak 4-10 Points
2H= Weak 4-10 Points both Majors (4+)
2S= Weak 4-10 Points 6+ Spades
Jump Overcall 10-14 points 6+ Suit

The other's profile:

1C=Maybe Short Club (Forcing)
1D=Maybe Short Diamond (Forcing)
1H=15+
1S=17+
1NT=19+
2C=21+
2D=23+
2H 6+ weak
2S 6+ weak

Weak 3 level 7  cards
A stairway to nowhere is better than no stairway at all.  -Kehlog Albran