Are we happy?

[kenberg]

Here is a hand form the other day.

They are vul, we are not, scoring is imps. Rho deals and opens 1 .

You hold
A72
A2
Q8
AKJ763

A good hand but what to do? I doubled.

The auction
1    X     P   1
 P    2    P   2
P       ?

What's 2 , I suppose you ask. You are playing with the bots, the better bots,  and they tell you:
3+      4+       6+ HCPs   7-9 total points  (Huh? But so it said)  Forcing to 3NT.

Actually I didn't bother to look, I just bid 3NT.  Now that I think of it,  2 is an alternative call. If partner has five spades, we might well want to be in 4 .  Anyway I just bid 3NT.

The opening lead is the 6 and here are the hands.

Q986
Q93
J76
Q54

A72
A2
Q8
AKJ763

As the title says, are we happy?

You often hear that a 17 point hand is too strong for an overcall, that first you must double. But here I have 18 and a pretty decent six card suit, and still the contract is not on ice. The above is in fact about the borderline for me With a little less I would settle for a 2 call.  But once partner shows some life with 2 , I got optimistic.

Anyway, as is so often the case, it comes down to choices made during the play. If you play the 9 from dummy, as I did, RHO will produce the T. We might need a little luck here.

Added:  i am thinking a good auction could go as follows, assuming that after the opening 1 H the opponents are silent:

X       1
2    2
2    3
3    3NT

This way we find our spade fit if we have one. When we don't, N probably is not up for NT on Qxx and so bids 3 . Now I bid 3 . The logic her is that we would both know N does not have any great heart holding else N would have bid 3NT instead f 3 . So my 3 cannot be asking for a stop that N is already known not to have, but instead is asking for some sort of assistance in handling hearts.

It's always easier to see this sort of logic when looking at the hands, but I think it makes some sense. If N bids the NT we should be in good shape. There are 8 tricks on top and it will not be easy for E to start in on  any suit without helping N to develop a ninth. A passive club will not help N, but bots are not that passive. Neither are humans.

[OliverC]

Not entirely sure I agree with your 3NT bid, Ken. Partner knows you have a strong hand once you bid 2 , so over 2 I would be bidding 2 , if only because If Partner has something like the hand he actually has I really want my RHO to be on the opening lead rather than LHO, so I want Partner to be Declarer in a NO Trump contract. 2 from you is perfectly safe in that Partner knows for certain you only have 3

So now

1     X      No     1
No      2   No     2
No      2   No     3
No      3   No     3NT
All Pass

Now I'm happy . I know partner only has 4-card Spades and that Spades is not the place to play, but we've easily allowed Partner to become Declarer in this 3NT Contract. This sequence, though, easily caters for the times when Partner has 5-card Spades, something you would miss if you just blast 3NT over 2 (and cause yourself other problems into the bargain).

[kenberg]

Yes,I had added pretty much the same thoughts to my original post.  I have a tendency toward impatience.  Partly this is just me, partly it is that it has been a long time since i have had a partner who likes to objectively go over hands, the result being that extended or possibly ambiguous sequences are undiscussed.  In the sequence you and I think is the best, I suggest that after partner's 3 call my 3 is not likely to be looking for a full stop. If partner had a full stop she/he/it would presumably have bid NT over my hypothetical  2 .  So the 2 !h can be seen as "Maybe NT is still ok if you can help", and Qxx is certainly help.

I was playing with a bot and it would have been interesting to see if the auction would have continued in this way after I bid 2 . I certainly think 2 is right rather than 3NT simply because nobody promised that partner does not have five spades.

Regarding the bots: Just recently I have been playing in the 25 cent all day bot tourneys.  For two bits you play 8 boards with the upscale bots. I had not played with the bots that much in the past, and then usually only with the cheap/free version. The upscale ones are pretty good, I have not yet had a bidding misunderstanding with them and some of the auctions have been at least a bit involved.
Bottom line: If someone wants to practice in a relaxed and realistic setting, I think playing in the 25 cent online tourney and then going over the boards is a reasonable idea.

The play of this hand:


The opening lead is the 6 and here are the hands.

Q986
Q93
J76
Q54

A72
A2
Q8
AKJ763


The auction was as stated. After 1 on the right the opponents are silent and it goes uncontested  X- 1 -2 -2 - 3NT.

Bots lead small from three small so the 6 could be from 876, or J76 or K76  to name a few.  It actually was from K76 but here is an interesting feature. When it is from K76 we do not have to go up with the Q on the board to make the contract. We have 25 hcps and Rho has opened the bidding so if Lho has the K  then (almost)  surely the AK and the K are on the right. So I won the heart, two rounds of clubs ending on the board with RHO discarding a heart!. Then a small from the board. E is in and has no play to stop me from taking 9 tricks. In fact, if he is not careful I might take 10. 

So this worked out, but it required luck.  Definitely it would be both easier and safer to have 3NT  played from the N hand.

I'll just repeat about the bots. Occasional experience with the lesser bots convinced me that they are too erratic to have a decent game with. But now I have played a bit, maybe 5 or 6 eight board rounds, with the better bots and that has gone decently enough that I enjoy it. I think it is very possible that had I bid 2 as I should have then we would have ended in 3NT played by N, as we should have.

The full play, fwiw. You have to copy the whole thing and paste it in as a url.

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=st||md|4SA72HA2DQ8CAKJ763,SJT4HK76DT543C982,SQ986HQ93DJ76CQ54,SK53HJT854DAK92CT|sv|E|ah|Board%206|mb|1H|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20!H;%2011-21%20HCP;%2012-22%20total%20points|mb|D|an|Takeout%20double%20--%203-5%20!C;%203-5%20!D;%202-%20!H;%203-4%20!S;%2012+%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|1S|an|4+%20!S;%209-%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|2C|an|rebiddable%20!C;%2018+%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|2H|an|3+%20!C;%204+%20!S;%206+%20HCP;%207-9%20total%20points;%20forcing%20to%203N|mb|P|mb|3N|an|5-%20!H;%205-%20!S;%2019-26%20HCP;%20rebiddable%20!C;%20likely%20stop%20in%20!H|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|H6|pc|H9|pc|HT|pc|HA|pc|CA|pc|C2|pc|C4|pc|CT|pc|C7|pc|C9|pc|CQ|pc|H5|pc|D6|pc|DK|pc|D8|pc|D5|pc|H4|pc|H2|pc|HK|pc|H3|pc|D3|pc|D7|pc|D9|pc|DQ|pc|CK|pc|C8|pc|C5|pc|S3|pc|CJ|pc|S4|pc|S6|pc|D2|pc|C6|pc|DT|pc|S8|pc|HJ|pc|C3|pc|D4|pc|S9|pc|H8|pc|SA|pc|SJ|pc|SQ|pc|S5|pc|S2|pc|ST|pc|HQ|pc|SK|pc|DA|pc|S7|pc|H7|pc|DJ|

[OliverC]

Yes,I had added pretty much the same thoughts to my original post.  I have a tendency toward impatience.  Partly this is just me, partly it is that it has been a long time since i have had a partner who likes to objectively go over hands, the result being that extended or possibly ambiguous sequences are undiscussed.  In the sequence you and I think is the best, I suggest that after partner's 3 call my 3 is not likely to be looking for a full stop. If partner had a full stop she/he/it would presumably have bid NT over my hypothetical  2 .  So the 2 !h can be seen as "Maybe NT is still ok if you can help", and Qxx is certainly help.

Absolutely. As you say, some people are afraid to have constructive sequences like this for fear that Partner is going to pass unexpectedly, or that they're going to keep on bidding with nothing when they ought to pass over an obvious sign-off from you.
In reality, though, hands like this ought to pretty much bid themselves.

• 2 is showing game interest in the context of your Double then 2 .
• 2 is clearly forward-going with only 3-card Spades (in case Partner has 5) and probably not a great holding in Hearts (but showing the Spade support takes priority in any case).
• 3 is showing no 4-card Spades and 3-card Clubs and also no great Heart holding.
• 3 is saying "Well I have something in Hearts. Can you help?".
• The answer is always going to be 3NT ("Yes") or 4 ("No).
• The original doubler can decide over 4 whether to pass that or bid 5 .