After 1D-2C

[kenberg]

In Jack's session there was some discussion about the auction 1D-2D-2M. Does it promise exras? Does it show long diamonds? Here is what Bridge World Standard says:


 "Opener's reverse of the form one diamond — two clubs — two of a major does not promise extra values and is ambiguous as to diamond length."

Thus 1D-2C-2H could be on a 12 count and four diamonds, or even three diamonds if opener is 4=4=3=2. Opener can be 4=4=4=1 and a 12 count.

I am pretty sure that the bots play 1D-2C-2M as showing extras [Yes, they do, I checked,  see below] but I will check that out and get back on that.

Sticking with BWS for the moment, after 1H-2m the following applies:

"After a two-over-one response [to a major suit opening] , a two-level reverse or a non-jump three-level new-suit bid shows extra strength, but two notrump or a single raise may be based on a minimum hand."


This is how I have played for a long time.

The logic:

After 1H-2m, opener, with 4=5 in the majors,  can bid 2H (this does not show 6) and wait for responder to show spades if he has them 

After the 1H major we can wait to see about spades.
However, after 1D-2C now we have to explore both for a spade fit and a heart fit and, to me, it seems best to get started by having opener rebid 2M if he has four cards in a major.

I am not claiming this is perfect, nor am I claiming that this is what everyone does, but it's workable and it is what BWS does.

Added: I checked the bots. After 1D-2C, they play that 2S shows 16-22 total points (hcps plus any distribution). It does not promise any extra length in diamonds.

Quick summary:
1H-2m-2S sows extras with the bots and in BWS
1D-2C-2M shows exras with the bots, but not with BWS. And does not shoe extra diamond length in BWS or with the bots.


I might look around a bit at other sources.

[kenberg]

I dug up my Mike Lawrence CD on 2/1. I got a new computer a while back and had not yet installed the system, now I have, so this search has been useful.

Here is an excerpt from the ML disk about what opener should do after the auction begins 1D-2C.  I note that ML, after 1D-2C, allows that under some circumstances when both hands are minimal and NT does not seem to be playable, the partnership can stop in 4m. Getting into just when this applies  will be left for another day.

With five diamonds, rebid 2D


He says you should almost always do this when you have five diamonds, although bidding 2 or 3 NT is ok.
With a solid six card diamond suit it goes 1D-2C-3D.

1D-2C-2M. He says that this denies fove diamonds Yes, denies, not shows. I guess the idea is that with five diamonds and a major, you rebid 2D and wait to see if pard bids a major. He also does not say that the 2M promises four cards. He just says that you do this when "you do not feel like bidding NT".

1D-2C-2NT is 12-14, at least for the moment it is 12-14 but it could also be 18-19, to be shown later. Eg 1D-2C-2NT-3NT-4NT. I haven't looked this up on the disk, but as I play this shows the 18-19.


That's a sample.

This 2/1 disc is pretty old, and views change. But it seems playable. ML fits my personality pretty well, he acknowledges that sometimes things just go wrong no matter which system you are laying. I agree. the point is to have some agreed upon basis for choosing your bid and then hope for the best.

[Masse24]

I dug up my Mike Lawrence CD on 2/1. I got a new computer a while back and had not yet installed the system, now I have, so this search has been useful.

Here is an excerpt from the ML disk about what opener should do after the auction begins 1D-2C.  I note that ML, after 1D-2C, allows that under some circumstances when both hands are minimal and NT does not seem to be playable, the partnership can stop in 4m. Getting into just when this applies  will be left for another day.

With five diamonds, rebid 2D


He says you should almost always do this when you have five diamonds, although bidding 2 or 3 NT is ok.
With a solid six card diamond suit it goes 1D-2C-3D.

1D-2C-2M. He says that this denies five diamonds Yes, denies, not shows. I guess the idea is that with five diamonds and a major, you rebid 2D and wait to see if pard bids a major. He also does not say that the 2M promises four cards. He just says that you do this when "you do not feel like bidding NT".

1D-2C-2NT is 12-14, at least for the moment it is 12-14 but it could also be 18-19, to be shown later. Eg 1D-2C-2NT-3NT-4NT. I haven't looked this up on the disk, but as I play this shows the 18-19.

Yup. Pretty much my preferred treatment.

You never lose the major using this method, which is an objection I have heard to using it. Since 1 can be three or four cards, rebidding diamonds to show 5+ immediately begins to clarify length. It obviously conserves space. So as you wrote above, rebidding 2M denies as many as five diamonds. Surely this knowledge benefits responder.

As far as opener rebidding 2M; I like to play that it absolutely shows a four-card major. After all, at this early stage of the auction we've not yet nailed down a fit, so strain is still in doubt.

Also, a 2NT rebid by opener simply says that 2NT looks right at this point. It does not deny a four-card major. As you wrote, Ken, 2NT can show two ranges. 12-14 or 18-19. Pretty standard stuff. Ain't no "fast arrival" in No Trump.

As far as stopping in 4m once you begin with a GF 1 - 2 auction, I dabbled with that briefly but found a few auctions difficult to untangle. So I just go with 100% GF, no exceptions. It makes life easier.