University of IAC > 2/1 Talk

Counterintuitive

<< < (2/3) > >>

wackojack:
On the first hand Gazzilli was mentioned in the Bridge Winners discussion.  A Gazzilli auction would also go 1  !S-1NT-2  !C -2  !D 3 !H. (I think)  Where a jump in the other major would show 16+ and 4 card support.  I am not sure if Zia plays Gazzilli with Rodwell.  The difference between the natural and Gazilli auction is that responder natural = say 5+ and gazzilli 8+.  Will this make a difference to what 3  !S and 4 !S means.    This sort of disussion is too rarified for me. 

Masse24:
On the first hand, Ken, if the auction begins 1 !S – 1NT – 3 !D – 3 !S, although it’s not the out-of-the-box “expert standard,” I can see a two-way either/or treatment for 3 !S. It could simply be showing preference, presumably with at least two cards (Qx or better?), or the 3-card limit-raise in the example hand above. Opener can then show slam interest with a control bid. If responder has garbage, he sign off in 4 !S. However, if responder has the limit raise and opener expresses slam interest he can cooperate. Obviously, because of the space constraints due to the jump-shift, having Last-Train in the arsenal could potentially come in handy.

The text below, pulled from The BWS 2017 Poll Results and changes, a non-jump of four of a new suit is “a control-bid ostensibly in support of opener's second suit.”


--- Quote ---1426. After a one-notrump response and a jump-shift, a non-jump bid of four of a new suit by responder [e.g.: one spade -- one notrump -- three diamonds -- four clubs] should be . . .
A. a control-bid ostensibly in support of opener's second suit [78]
B. natural [22]
System addition: After one of a major -- one notrump -- two of a lower-ranking suit -- ? or a one-notrump response and a jump-shift, four of a suit ranking below opener's second suit is a control-bid supporting opener's second suit.
--- End quote ---

But note the failure to mention a 3-level non-jump, which could happen with the other auction we mentioned above: 1 !H – 1NT – 3 !D – 3 !S.
Could this 3 !S, as Jack mentions, be a grope for 3NT? Obviously it is limited to no more than three !S due to the initial 1NT response. Maybe that’s why it is not mentioned in the BWS 2017 poll—because 3NT is still in play? 

Masse24:
Searching Bridgewinners, I found a several discussions of jump-shift auctions. In one of them, Bob Heitzman discussed a portion of his method. I’ve included it below, which I think looks very good and not too terribly complex. Heitzman, by the way, wrote two articles, both published in The Bridge World pertaining to these auctions.
They are:

* “Clarifying After Opener's Jump-Shift” February 2011, and
* “Superstrong Raises by Opener”  June 2011
Unfortunately, I was a new player then and had not yet subscribed to The Bridge World. (Anyone have back issues?)


--- Quote ---In "expert standard", the jump to 4 !S shows a 3-card limit raise. This has come up in several MSC problems in the Bridge World. That doesn't mean it is the only way to play, or perhaps even that it is best, although I think it is best.

Continuations after opener's jump shift rebid are among the most controversial in standard bidding. If you follow the MSC, every time this situation comes up you will see that every panelist has his own idea of what the various bids should mean (although the jump to 4 !S is one of the few non-controversial issues).

That's the main reason I wrote a recent Bridge World article about this situation. I'm not saying my suggestions in the article are the only way to go, and certainly not that they are accepted by all experts, but I think they are a good starting point for discussion.

On this particular auction, I suggest in the article that 3S should show a doubleton honor in spades (Qx or better). 3N should show a hand with stoppers in the unbid suits and less than enough to jump to 4N, which is quantitative with around 11-12 hcp (it also implies little slam potential in either of opener's suits). A raise to 4 !D should show a decent hand with 4-card support (higher raises are barred since the jump shifter may not have real diamonds).

The meaning of 4 !C and 4 !H depend on what 1N is--in the usual case where it is either semi-forcing or forcing but limited, these should be cue-bids in support of diamonds. If 1N is unlimited and responder might have 3 spades with 12+ support points, the 4-level cues should be in support of spades, not diamonds (this would be the case for 1 !H – 1 !S - 3m, since the 1 !S bid is unlimited).

All other hands are shown with a "punt" of 3 !H, including hands with 3-card support that were deemed too weak for an initial raise to 2 (this hand will usually bid 4 !S next).

In auctions where there is no unbid suits available at the 3-level, rebidding 3 of opener's first suit becomes the punt, and no longer shows Qx or better. If there are two unbid suits available (e.g., 1 !S - 1N - 3 !C), then 3 of the lower is the pure punt, while 3 of the higher unbid suit (by responder or by opener after responder's punt) shows a stopper in that suit and asks partner to bid 3N with a stopper in the other unbid suit.     

--- End quote ---

Curls77:
Unsure if it is relevant to this discussion, but let's not forget in IAC most pardships are new and do not have any specific agreements.
Assuming vanilla 2/1 or Joe's IAC standard, best they could do is play fast arrival principle, in which jump to 4S would show hand forced to game, that choose least of evils in their opinion. Which would leave 3S to show nice natural raise of spades, not necessarily Hxx, awaiting cues from p.

Is it not similar auction of:
2C-any positive answer as 2N or 3C for example
3H-?
Bid of 4H would show wish to sign of, right?

Masse24:

--- Quote from: Curls77 on June 26, 2019, 07:01:02 PM ---Unsure if it is relevant to this discussion, but let's not forget in IAC most pardships are new and do not have any specific agreements.
Assuming vanilla 2/1 or Joe's IAC standard, best they could do is play fast arrival principle, in which jump to 4S would show hand forced to game, that choose least of evils in their opinion. Which would leave 3S to show nice natural raise of spades, not necessarily Hxx, awaiting cues from p.

--- End quote ---
Sanya, it's entirely relevant to the discussion. And the concept of "fast-arrival" is partially the reason for my post. Significantly, not because it does apply here, but because it does not. Remember, a suit has not been agreed. Responder must be able to show simple preference or, because of the forcing NoTrump, the 3-card limit raise. The jump to 4 !S is the widely recognized "expert standard."

Roughly two years ago, I emailed a handful of world-class players about the above auction. I received a handful of responses. They all agreed. Marty Bergen, giving one of his usual cryptic responses wrote, "Responder's 3 !S bid is a preference; assumed to be a doubleton. His jump to 4 !S is a lim raise. Many players don't know the above.
Regards,
Marty"

Some of the ideas above by Ken, Jack, and the quoted material from Heitzman would require careful discussion. If I had a regular partner, I would explore some of those methods. But opposite a random partner I would expect (or hope for) the bog standard method that Bergen wrote about.



 

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page