Organised Chaos! > IAC Matters
IAC rules
kenberg:
I expect you are right that the bot idea is a non-starter. Too bad I think. I think of myself as a relaxed sort of person, but let me be a bit emphatic here.
I think one of the very first and most important lessons in bridge is that with a great many bids, especially conventional bids, there is no such thing as the "right" meaning, there is only an agreed upon meaning. BWS plays a 3NT opening as "solid seven-card minor with little side strength", but with the Gib cc under conventions NOT played it lists the gambling 3NT.
Ok, 3NT openings are uncommon whatever they mean but a 1 !C opening is very common. How to respond? Here is BWS:
"In response to one club, with four of a major and four-plus diamonds, responder bids: one of the major with four diamonds, one diamond with invitational-plus values (otherwise one of the major) with five diamonds, one diamond with six diamonds."
A true Walsher would skip over 1 !D to bid 1M holding five !D, a four card major and only invitational values.
Who is right? The people who have an agreement are right.
An amusing example from a recent face to face game. I opened 1NT, Lho overcalled with a DONT 2 !D, partner bid 4 !H. I alerted as Texas and bid 4 !S, after which he bid 5 !C. I was a little worried that he intended 4 !H as natural, he did, but I kept on as if the 4 !H call showed !S. We ended in a hopeless 6NT, making on bad defense. BWS says Texas is on if the interference is 4 !C or less, Mike Lawrence says it is on if the interference is 3 !C or less [imo Todd is correct below where he regards this as the usual way], partner was thinking it was off over any interference. I can't think of any reason to play it as off over 2 level interference but at any rate what is really wrong is to play a convention without agreeing as to when it is on and when it is off. Partner said we had never discussed it, I said that's impossible, I never agree [in a regular partnership!] to play a convention without agreeing as to when it is on, when it is off.
So the educational point is: Conventions, and for that matter natural bids, mean different things to different people. There is no absolute source for finding the meaning, partners must agree on the meaning.
For reasons that escape me, players continue to think that their way of playing a convention is correct, other people's way of playing it is wrong, since they know the right way there is no need to discuss it. A written source is not "right", it's not the last word, but it is written, people can read it, and they can agree to play it as written. Or they can continue on, with one person playing it one way, their partner playing it anther way. As with the Texas example above, it will sometimes work out.
Anyway, I sometimes get a kick out of seeing just what the bots would do. I might try them on the MSC problems. In fact I think I will.
Masse24:
--- Quote from: kenberg on September 18, 2019, 06:40:22 PM ---BWS says Texas is on if the interference is 4 !C or less, Mike Lawrence says it is on if the interference is 3 !C or less, partner was thinking it was off over any interference. I can't think of any reason to play it as off over 2 level interference but at any rate what is really wrong is to play a convention without agreeing as to when it is on and when it is off.
--- End quote ---
I remember reading this treatment in BWS recently. I was surprised that BWS played it through 4 !C, thinking that my understanding (through 3 !C) was "standard." Not necessarily!
My guess is simply for simplicity' sake, since limiting Texas to the lower threshold opens up a handful of two-suited calls, which offers more flexibility but also more memory strain.
To satisfy my curiosity, I checked the BWS Polls, Changes and Additions. The Texas over interference treatment is new, not a change, and was apparently not mentioned in BWS 2001.
1502. After an overcall of a one-notrump opening, Texas (four-level) transfers should apply if the overcall was no higher than . . .
A. four clubs [48]
B. three notrump [1]
C. three of a suit [5]
D. three clubs [46]
E. the two-level 0
F. one notrump (i.e., never applies) 0
System addition: After an overcall of a one-notrump opening, Texas transfers apply if the overcall was no higher than four clubs.
So the "vote" was close.
Curls77:
Full IAC rules are now published, my fault they were not sooner. They might suffer the read-proof but essence none will miss:
http://iac.pigpen.org.uk/SettingTables.php
rich_a:
I agree with the rules and thank Sanya for putting them to paper. In all fairness, we should consider them as guidelines instead of rules so players don't feel too restricted. We must alert but I think a full explanation of an alert is not necessary in most cases. For example, if I bid fourth suit forcing and announce it as game forcing, the opponents can ask for more information if they have questions. If we alert a Jacoby 2NT, do we really need to announce that we have four cards in the bid major suit and 13+ points? If we play 2 way Drury, do we need to say with our 2 club bid that we have three cards in the bid major suit and 10 HCP or 11+ total points? We all are intermediate/advanced players and I realize, some experts play in the IAC, so we have experience or at a minimum know how to ask what a bid signifies.
Secondarily, we should show a positive attitude and stating that if you don't follow the rules, you will be banned. The IAC must be a happy place to play; I enjoy playing there and hope we can keep it pleasant.
Curls77:
--- Quote from: rich_a on November 16, 2019, 06:50:38 AM ---I agree with the rules and thank Sanya for putting them to paper. In all fairness, we should consider them as guidelines instead of rules so players don't feel too restricted.
--- End quote ---
You are right Rich, my “english” is far from great, and my choice of words might not be the best. :-[ I'd appreciate help from any IAC admin or member to correct what could sound better if said in different way. Rules word is gone from the top, and replaced by COC.
I am not sure if Guidelines is proper name for Rules for trnys and team matches, coz they are rules. Because each TD can forbid or allow undo's or some conventions, so it's not really just recommendation to not psycho (for example), but a rule, if TD announced it so.
--- Quote from: rich_a on November 16, 2019, 06:50:38 AM ---We must alert but I think a full explanation of an alert is not necessary in most cases. For example, if I bid fourth suit forcing and announce it as game forcing, the opponents can ask for more information if they have questions. If we alert a Jacoby 2NT, do we really need to announce that we have four cards in the bid major suit and 13+ points? If we play 2 way Drury, do we need to say with our 2 club bid that we have three cards in the bid major suit and 10 HCP or 11+ total points? We all are intermediate/advanced players and I realize, some experts play in the IAC, so we have experience or at a minimum know how to ask what a bid signifies.
--- End quote ---
I will answer my own understanding, which is not necessarily right, and I will be happy hear different opinions, because I am very aware I might be too insisting in this matter. Majority of IAC members is, as you say, interm+ and should know what “gf” or “jacoby 2n” is. But not all. Many members come from BIL to us, and quietly watch games, learning from what they see. I was once one of them, watching Shep's lessons in IAC, and she was very serious about full alerts to help newbies, because not all are brave enough to ask, and after all IAC is teaching club. Many do not play Drury, let alone 2-way, is it really hard to alert 2C as “3 trumps, 10-11 pts”? What I try to say is that alerts are not only meant for opps, but for kibs too. Specialy in IAC trny, when opps vary, everyone can only benefit from having full alerts, none will call TD to complain, no arguments etc : )
I am not sure all our members play Jacoby 2N raise, but I do know of couple of IAC members that play modified version. Not really subject of our discussion here, but interesting reads, imho:
https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/limited-bidding-reengineering-jacoby-2nt/
https://www.larryco.com/bridge-learning-center/detail/45
--- Quote from: rich_a on November 16, 2019, 06:50:38 AM ---The IAC must be a happy place to play; I enjoy playing there and hope we can keep it pleasant.
--- End quote ---
:)
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