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Creature's Features

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jcreech:
I liked Poco's idea, so I have co-opted it for my lesson hands as well.  Here are 11/14/2019's hands and my notes.

Curls77:
WTG Jim and TY !  !H

kenberg:
Tanks for the hands. I trust it is ok to comment. I played board 4, the one where I have 6=5=1=1 shape. There was a question afterwards (by Curls77 as I recall!) as to whether 1 !C - 1 !S - 2 !C - 2 !H is forcing. I replied that I like it to be, but not everyone agrees. I also noted that the bots play it as forcing although when I looked for it today I could not find it. But I am pretty sure that they do.  Why would it not be? Well, everyone plays that 1 !C - 1 !S - 1NT - 2 !H is non-forcing.  Of course that's different, after 1 !C - 1 !S - 1NT I would know that partner, for his 1NT rebid, has at least a somewhat balanced hand and I could just bid a please place the contract 4 !H. With 5-4 shape and a hand worth inviting game I bid a nmf 2 !D over 1NT.

There are some ho like to use 1 !C - 1 !S - 2 !C - 2 !D in a similar way, as an artificial call with at least invit strength and as yet unlnown shape, and then they use !C - 1 !S - 2 !C - 2 !H as a weak bid, basically a pass/correct bid. That's not crazy, but I prefer natural, I do think that after 1 !D - 1 !S - 2 !D  a 2 !H call has to be natural and forcing, using 3 !C as an artificial nmf call is way too far out for me.

Our auction, as I recall, continued as follows: 1 !C - 1 !S - 2 !C - 2 !H - 2NT.  Now what? Here I think a 3 !H call by me should be passable. Clearly a lot of partner's cards are in the minor, not only did she rebid 2 !C  but she was able to rebid 2NT so she must have some !D as well. Nonetheless, I can be stubborn and I am 6-5 with decent values so I bid  presumably forcing 3 !S. I say presumably forcing because partner has not yet said anything about her heart and spade holdings so if I wanted to let he get out at the 3 level in whichever major she prefers, then I should be bidding 3 !H. So I think 3 !S, although undisussed not only by us but probably be just about everyone, should be construed as forcing. Or very close to forcing. If partner is 1-1 in the majors she could maybe  take a flyer on passing.

Anyway, the sequence got us to 4 !S, a decent contract. It makes if spades are 3-1 and it makes if they are 4-1 as long as the four card holding is on my right.

My main point here is that while I think that the 2 !H, if undiscussed, should be seen as forcing, there are a fair number of people who play it as non-forcing, using an extended version of nmf to handle the forcing case. My preference is that 2 !H forcing, I think the bots play it that way as well. Others play it non-forcing.

Masse24:

--- Quote from: kenberg on November 15, 2019, 08:07:35 PM ---My main point here is that while I think that the 2 !H, if undiscussed, should be seen as forcing, there are a fair number of people who play it as non-forcing, using an extended version of nmf to handle the forcing case. My preference is that 2 !H forcing, I think the bots play it that way as well. Others play it non-forcing.

--- End quote ---

I agree, Ken, this (non-forcing weakish) is one possible way to play it. With discussion, I prefer to play it as shown below. But I totally understand the desire for natural; the fewer gadgets, the fewer disasters.

1 !C - 1 !S - 2 !C - 2 !H = weakish and non-forcing. Exactly like the same auction with a 1NT rebid by opener. It is only due to the extra space permitting an artificial 2 !D rebid by responder that allows this treatment.

1 !D - 1 !S - 2 !D - 2 !H does not afford responder the space for an artificial bid, so 2 !H must be forcing.

With a regular partner I would play it this way, but never undiscussed.

[Added] We had the same discussion, about the same auction, previously: 1 !C - 1 !S - 2 !C - 2 !H

Also, the Billy Miller mention of this treatment can be found here. It is a few clicks in. 1 !C - 1 !S - 2 !C - 2 !H

kenberg:
This would probably work pretty well here. After 1 !C - 1 !S -  2 !C - 2 !D, opener would, I assume, bid 2 NT. He won't be really happy to do this with !H Qx but it's responder's show. Now responder bids 3 !H. Opener, having denied holding three spades, can show two card support, or at least a willingness to play in spades opposite a six card suit, by bidding 3 !S.  Responder presumably then bids 4. And goes down on the 4-1 split, but it's the right contract.

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