University of IAC > 2/1 Talk

Greetings everyone, and a first try.

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OliverC:
Hi Babs,

Welcome to the Forum!

In a pick-up game, you're absolutely right, few would object to your doing exactly that. I think part of the idea of Joe's framework, though is to give you more confidence what your gadgets and methods are before you start. Sometimes it's a matter of knowing what you have on your plate before you choose how to eat your spaghetti.

For example:

Partner opens 1NT and you're not sure whether you play 4-way transfers or not, which means you're not sure what 1NT-2NT means. If you ask "4-way Xfers, p?" and they say "No" and you now bid 2NT, they're left thinking "Did she hear me right?", because they're left thinking you maybe wanted to transfer, but actually you were wondering whether or not you had to go through 2 !C Stayman to invite to 3NT :)

That's perhaps not an ideal example, but hopefully you see what I mean.

I can't disagree with what Joe is trying to achieve, but don't forget you're speaking to someone who teaches a system where we have a precise agreement...

1 !C - (X) - 1 !D - (1 !S)
No - (No) - ???

...as to what Opener's Pass means over the 1 !S overcall :) (it's an Asking bid in Diamonds)

kenberg:
I think allowed questions depend on the circumstances. We often have a "friendly table" and sure, you can ask. Otoh, while I certainly think Hoki's tourney is a "friendly tourney", still  it is a tourney and I think the accepted style is to not ask and just take your lumps. At any rate, I think getting too loose takes some of the fun out of the game.

Here is something that happened today. The opps had an rkc auction, I think they agreed on 0/3 versus 1/4, anyway the response was 0/3. Passed out in 5S making 7. I had no keys and I almost injected a comment' You guys sure you want to pass" but I didn't.  With regular partners I have an agreement to keep this from happening. But here what could be said? "My response is 0/3 and, hint, it's not 0"?

I see no reason why "friendly tables" with all the conversation in the world cannot exist, but I am hoping we can also start to get make it less necessary.

Oliver mentions that his OCP has precise meanings. Exactly. I am sure there are lots of good things about super precision, but one thing that strikes me right off s is that that many many auctions have a laid out meaning. I doubt that even Meckwell never have a misunderstanding and they have been playing together for what, forty years? Perfection is not for mortals. But we can do better. Even if we 2/1 folks do not reach, or approach, what OCP has I think we could do better.

And the thing is, saying "Bergen" really does not always suffice. That's one reason that I often try to not play Bergen in pick up. The same applies to many conventions.
 
Anyway, I am sure this sort of discussion appeals to some more than others. I am hoping it catches on, at least a bit.

Added: Maybe this will show what I am thinking. My preference n 2/1 is that 1H-2m-2S shows extras, while 1D-2C-2M does not. But Joe has none of them showing extras. I think that there is something to be said for just having this written down. and then, as a default, that's what I do. Mostly it doesn't matter but it is good to know which choice has been made.   

bAbsG:
Thanks Oliver and Ken.  Good examples and I agree with both of you. :)

OliverC:
Hi All,


Ken, I wasn't trying to compare 2/1 with Super-Precision, because they're totally different kinds of animals, just making the point that I sympathise with Joe's aims in trying to set a basic 2/1 standard that people can try to follow when playing with other IAC Members. There's nothing remotely wrong in aiming for that.

kenberg:
Oliver, I didn't take any thing you said  as criticism, not at all,  and I doubt Joe would.
My thinking was more that OCP sets a good example for having a bunch, a large bunch, of defined sequences.
I see 2/1 as having many paths. If I am going to play with someone often, then we can hash these things out.
For just a few boards, say I am a sub, I think the fewer conventions the better. Up to a point at least.
Somewhere in between, with someone I hope to play with repeatedly but where time or distance or whatever keeps us from extended discussion, then having something like Joe's notes can be useful.
When I first learned bridge, rubber bridge, everyone played Goren. When I started playing duplicate, someone told me I should learn Max Hardy's Five Card Majors Western Style. Later a partner and I played,  using Bergen. Currently, and for quite a while, I am a Mike Lawrence fan. It matters less what you play than that you and partner are playing the same thing. I think Michael Rosenberg, and probably about a zillion other people, have also said such things. I just got back from a club game where we play Standard American.

The infinite variety of bridge makes  it a great game.

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