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Chew the Fat! => The IAC Café => Topic started by: wackojack on December 15, 2021, 11:17:54 PM

Title: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: wackojack on December 15, 2021, 11:17:54 PM
We know well and are grateful to Poco and Cedar for holding the "Dare competition" for iac.  They are both, ofcourse titans of the Acol club and run many events there.
 I think it would be great if we could get up a team of 4 (or even a team of 8 if sufficient interest)  and challenge the Acol club to a teams match.  I think it would not only be interesting for its own sake but will be helpful in getting practice playing against a weak no trump and possible 4 card major suit openings. 

Interested?  And any suggestions?
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on December 27, 2021, 02:37:48 PM
This is one excellent idea Jack :)
Start forming the IAC team, and let's ask Colin/Alan later today (after Dare lesson) to form ACOL team.

I am sure it won't be hard to agree on the date/time and hold a regular, monthly or even weekly, IAC vs ACOL team match, maybe even with postmortem following the match.
When we used to do IAC team series, sundays at 1700 utc (noon in NY, 5pm UK) usually worked well for players from both Europe and America.
(I so wish we could resume those matches, they were such fun)
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: wackojack on January 10, 2022, 09:59:25 PM
Colin (Poco) and Alan (Cedar) are keen on having these matches.  The first suggestion is to stage the match or matches on a Sunday or Sundays at 17:00 utc which is noon Eastern time.   Ideally an adv/exp team of 4 to play the Acol cream and int/ adv team of 4 to play regular Acol players.

So I am asking who wants to play?  If we get a large response it could be a headache for me (If I am designated as a selector)  on picking the teams.  OTOH if this becomes a regular fixture everybody that would like to play could be given a chance. 

First come first served?  Established partnerships?  or even say a trial playing with robots.  Opinions please? 

BTW Those not familiar with Acol should not worry.  The only real adjustment is how to compete over a weak no trump  The only convention that I know of which is not really suitable is DONT because double is needed for penalty.  and knowing that a 1NT rebid shows 15-16(17).
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on January 22, 2022, 02:37:02 PM
It's surprising that Jack still could not create a team, I know many of you that adore team matches.
Please contact WackoJack if you'd like to be in the team, and let's schedule first match, ACOL is keen for this event and look forward to it  :)
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: wackojack on January 30, 2022, 10:37:52 AM
Acol teams challenge 26 Feb 8pm utc (3pm US Eastern)

The firmed up date for the Teams challenge will be 26th Feb at 8pm utc (3pm US eastern time)  16 boards with changeroo after 8 boards.   Colin says that he thinks he can field 3 teams.  So I need definite partnership names to come forward.  So far the only definite partnership that has volunteered has been. 

Neha + Fleurette
Also Blubayou + ?  (Palych)?

Sanya has also suggested that Post Mortem + Quarky might want to represent iac.  Please could other players particularly the leading players declare a partnership that I can put on the list. I know that might be difficult when there are many possible pairings but better to get the pairings now rather than ad hoc decisions on the day. Monday (tomorrow) will be an opportunity for all those that compete in DARE to volunteer a partnership in this teams challenge.

Acol club details are on their website   www.acolatbbo.org.uk
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: donnas on February 06, 2022, 12:53:16 AM

Hi - I can play, but don't have a partner.
Donna
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: palych on February 06, 2022, 05:42:45 PM
I am in. Can play most of Sat/Sun at this time :)
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on February 06, 2022, 09:43:53 PM
Hi all :)
I put the details in the IAC site news section, and we'll send a couple of BBO mail invitations to all IAC members.
*
This first event should have several teams. IAC team Nº1 will be created by WackoJack. OliverC and BrianM will create an OCP team. All members are most welcome to create own teams with their partners and friends, speak with them and when the team is created, give it a name, choose captain who should mail BBO_IAC (email:  IAC.at.BBO@gmail.com) with usernames on their team. Please have an extra player or pair, in case the team will need sub, although bbo_iac will be there to help you.
*
The teams will be graded. “Expert/Advanced” &  “Intermediate” , so do not be shy, there is room for everyone : )
FEB 21 is the deadline to sign up the teams. Please enter before midnight UTC (that’s 7pm in NYC).

Do not miss this great fun, it will be a lovely opportunity to learn to defend against a different system, meet new friends or laugh with old ones.
Both IAC and ACOL clubs hope this will not be just one time event, but perhaps repeated monthly, if there is enough interest. There is also a possibility to have all teams playing same hands, with PostMortem review after all matches finished.
So, do not miss this, form a team and JOIN  :-*
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: wackojack on February 07, 2022, 10:10:07 PM
Can I confirm that Joe + Todd and Ken + Pat are a team?
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: blubayou on February 08, 2022, 01:58:54 AM
Dmitry and Jock  have agreed  feb 26
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Masse24 on February 08, 2022, 11:51:15 PM
Conflict.
Joe and I cannot play on the 26th.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kookee on February 09, 2022, 04:15:39 AM
I would love to play - just need a partner and may be a team :)

Shankar
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on February 12, 2022, 06:10:19 PM
Hi all, the clock is ticking, and so far we had only ONE confirmed entry.

TEAM: From All Countries
CAPTAIN: maysie (May) - Australia
VICE CAPTAIN  : Boleo1 (Clement) - Canada
lysblanc (Lys) - Canada
oktayA (Oktay) - Turkey
RaNTuL (Emin) - Turkey
Uof FL Jen (Jen) - USA


All of you that want to participate, PLEASE organize your teams and select the Captain, who should write email to IAC.at.BBO@gmail.com stating Team name, usernames of all teammates, and if possible average team strength (intermediate, advanced, expert).
The deadline for registrations is FEBRUARY 21 2359uct.

We'll soon publish a document with detailed instructions, but the most important facts are:
       * The matches will be held on Saturday, February 26th at 2000utc, 3pm eastern USA. Use https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/ (https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/) to find out your local time, and be sure you can attend.
       * Team captain and at least 3 teammates must be from IAC club. You can have players that are not IAC members, invited by the captain. Needless to say is that we'll expect all players to play ethically, be polite and respectful to all. Captains are responsible for their teams, and should be sure that non-IAC invited players are aware of the Zero Tolerance policy.
       * After we have all teams registered, IAC and ACOL admins will seed them, and put captains in touch, by February 23rd 2359utc. Even though we play all kind of systems in IAC, ACOL players usually play just ACOL, and would not be fair to expose them to a team where pairs play different systems, they do not have enough time to prepare defense. So IAC can have 2/1 team, SAYC team, OCP team, etc., but not a mixture of them.

So many of you love team matches, I am surprised we do not have at least half a dozen teams already registered and practicing :) Don't be shy or lazy, join -- it will be great fun event for all!





Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: foxxtrot on February 12, 2022, 08:42:48 PM
Hi. This is foxxtrot (Louise). I would  !H to join a teams match. I am an Intermediate. I play 2/1, or SAYC. Feel free to look at my Profile on BBO. Leave a message on my BBO Profile, if you would like my email address. And if you would like me on your team, please let me know. Thanks so much.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: OliverC on February 12, 2022, 11:09:52 PM
Hi All,


Sanya, as discussed earlier, Brian and I are cobbling at one one additional OCP team together. We'll post the details in here and send the email to iac.at.bbo@gmail.com as well.


I may well not be able to play myself on 26th as I will be finishing work on the stroke of 8pm that day, but I'd be quite happy to conduct or help with a hand discussion afterwards.


Oliver


*
Edit from Curls:  We got 2 more OCP teams registered, GL you all!!!

Team 1, yet to be named
brian_m (captain) & podlecii
oliverc & servetd
iamadeus & p0stm0rtem

Team 2, yet to be named
epee9 (captain) & eszter5
bfortune & sjaldan
soko52 & arda85

Way to go OCP!!!
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: wackojack on February 13, 2022, 12:42:33 PM
It is good to hear that we have a definite "All countries team"  and a likely "OCP" team.
I am trying to get names for at least 2 further teams but some are finding the pre-arranged date and time not possible.  Also with the names I do have I could either try to get a strongest possible team with the strongest regular players for an "A" team or play known regular partnerships with not necesaarily the strongest players to form 2 teams of roughly equal strength.  I think the latter will be the most practical.

Sadly Joe + Todd are unavailable.  Here are partnerships who have declared interest not necessarily in any order of strength:
 
Blubayou + Palych
Fleurette + Neha
Myself + Veeree
Also :Postmortem + Quarky may be available/interested
And possibly Kenberg + CCr3 who at present are uncertain
If Donna can find a good partner that would be an asset

Also Foxtrot  (intermediate) would like to find a partner to play. It looks like we can get 2 teams but maybe more names will come to field 3 teams. 
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: brian_m on February 13, 2022, 06:31:20 PM

Change of teams

After saying they would play, the two Easterners in my first team have decided it's too late for them (it would be a 2200 start time in Bulgaria, and 2300 in Turkey). That leaves us with four players, and Oliver cannot make the first match. With May's team and my second team, I am about out of OCP players to ask. I will try to find a substitute, but I think it likely that we will be down to one team.



I have one OCP team for certain, and I am trying to get a second. Can't announce them yet as it depends on whether or not I manage to get the extra players. BTW, I have grabbed Postmortem to play with his regular OCP partner, Iamadeus. One team is likely to be those two with OliverC and Servetd plus Podlecii and myself, which is the strongest team I can put together.

Update: The second team is
Epee9 (captain) & Eszter5
Bfortune & sjAldan
arda85 & soko52

Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 14, 2022, 03:26:04 PM
Organizing things is always difficult and this is no exception.
Here is my current situation.

I play in the online acbl games with a partner, jeschca1 (Carl) that I played with in clubs before covid shut everything down. He and I could play, except he is not in the iac. I assume we could add him into iac?

If we get through the hurdle of him not now being in iac I think the rest will work. It sounds as if different people will be playing at different times. We will be flexible with time. We will need a pair to form a team with us, We are flexible as to who joins with us.

I hope this all works. Carl and I might be the only pair who play that the auction 1NT-2NT is invitational to 3NT, I hope that's ok. [Note:, Becky, my wife and not a bridge player, chuckled at this 1NT-2NT comment She has heard me ramble on about conventins.]
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: palych on February 14, 2022, 09:25:57 PM
Quote from: kenberg on February 14, 2022, 03:26:04 PM
Carl and I might be the only pair who play that the auction 1NT-2NT is invitational to 3NT
I hope it is not true. :),  p?
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: wackojack on February 14, 2022, 09:42:03 PM
Progrees so far after BBO chat:
 Team (not necessarily the A team)
Ken + Jeschca1 (Carl)
Vee + me
Team:
Blu + Palych
and another pair.

At present I could choose from Neha + Fleurette who are interested but I think Fleures availability is now in doubt.  Also perhaps Toasterin + Tislafi who have not contacted me but I understand they are interested. 

Also Donna is interested but so far has no partner. Any other adv/exp pair interested?  I am excluding the precision players who are organising their own team.
We need to firm up in the next few days. 

Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on February 14, 2022, 09:50:29 PM
I just love forums for deleting message when I typed it all, just coz another get posted meanwhile ;)

Ken- you asked and I replied to you, as well stated here in forums. You can have non IAC member in your team. And of course, if they want to be IAC member, they are most welcome.

Brian - we acknowledge Eppe9's team, we only need a team name for it, I asked Eszter to contact Jeremy.
I am still waiting to see if any ACOL team would take 1200utc slot, so that your 1st team can join too. We will let you know. There are more IAC teams from India  and Turkey that would prefer this slot.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 14, 2022, 11:53:35 PM
Ok, it's progress, great progress.

Jescchca1&kenberg with Vee&Jack

That's great. 

The time can be however it works out.

I will talk to Carl about joining iac, but that's up to him of course.

Thanks to everyone for the help. The message I deleted was the one saying that Pat and I were definitely playing. I deleted it because it was no longer correct. I apologize if that caused any confusion.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Holden47 on February 15, 2022, 12:47:08 PM
I know some who would be interested but the timing suggested is not possible.  How about having a couple of different times, could be called the early session, say noon UK time, and 20.00 for the later teams.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 15, 2022, 03:24:59 PM
I was reviewing the above posts and I saw this from feb 12:
"Even though we play all kind of systems in IAC, ACOL players usually play just ACOL, and would not be fair to expose them to a team where pairs play different systems, they do not have enough time to prepare defense. So IAC can have 2/1 team, SAYC team, OCP team, etc., but not a mixture of them."

carl and I do not play 2/1. I doubt that this would require any special adjustment from the acol players. If our auction begins 1H-2C, the 1H shows hearts and the 2C shows clubs and a decent hand, just not a game-forcing hand. We are SAYC like.

No doubt Jack and vee play 2/1. So in some sense the CardKen-JackVee team would be a mixture but it's not like one of us is playing a big club and the other playing Montreal Relay.

We will go quietly if this presents a problem, my assumption is that it doesn't, but I thought I should check.

For defense against the 12-14 point NT I like a double to be a penalty double with at least around 15 hcps, but that's a matter for discussion. Carl and I play in the acbl games and, in those games, the weak nt does not come up often enough that we have spent much time talking about it.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: dblqueen on February 15, 2022, 05:48:24 PM
Please can I clarify that the match is going to be on Sat 26th february, 8pm GMT.
The ACOL club is giving different info.
I have a team and will be submitting to the email suggested.
Thank You
dblqueen
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: dblqueen on February 15, 2022, 05:56:38 PM
Are we going to have team names? when we did the teams league many years ago, team names were fun :)
 
We were mad dogs and Englishman :)
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: wackojack on February 15, 2022, 06:26:53 PM
There is no such thing as "just Acol"  ken.  I think there is likely to be far more system variation with Acol players than with iac players except of course OCP. 
However, I don't want to alarm iac players who are unfamiliar with Acol that it is so different.  Here are some key points about Acol:

Opening 1NT is almost univerally played as 12-14.  A 1NT rebid is usually 15-17 and thus the opening 1NT and its rebid are switched.  The main implication to iac players is that DONT is not a very good defence because double should be used for penalties and 15+ is a good threshold.  Otherwise you can use any defence that has double as penalty.  So Capp would be fine athough Landy or MultiLandy I believe is technically better.
Also new minor forcing after a 1NT rebid is ruled out.  Some including Cedar and Poco use a 2C checkback so 1C-1any-1NT-2C is a check back.  Some Acol players play 1NT rebid as more wide ranging and then 2C is also a range enquiry but I doubt if you will come up against that.  The convention there is known as Crowhurst after Eric Crowhust who taught me bridge.

Most but not all Acol players play 2 levels of strong bids unlike most of the rest of the world that just plays 2C as the only strong opening bid (OK 2NT is strong)
Very old fashioned Acol opens 2D/H/S as a natural 8 -9 playing trick hand.  and 2C as an artificial game force. 
Nowdays most Acol players have embraced weak 2's in the majors, but they dont want to give up their 8-9 playing trick opening bids.  So they play a system that they announce as "Benji" 
Aside When I sat down against Zia and Robson at a tourney about 20 years ago and announced "Benji"  he laughed and said it sounded like a Disney character.
 Of course he knew what it was in reality
Benji is named after Albert Benjamin a Scot who proposed 2H/S to be a weak 2, 2C to be the 8 playing trick hand and 2D to be the game force (except for rebid of 2N) and all the no trump ranges wher shifted just a little because you had 2D followed by 2N and 2C followed by 2N to be strong. 
Albert Benjamin then decided that he didn't like this variation and I am not sure where he landed.  However, many in the Acol tribe stuck with this and some reversed the meaning of the 2C and 2D opening bid.  This is called "Reverse Benji"  and is what both Cedar and Poco play and I beleive many of their "Acolytes".
 

Anothe aside: Acol is not an acronym and so is not spelled in capital letters.  It wasinvented in a London bridge club on Acol Road knowd as the Acol club


My point is tht the difference in SA and 2/1 is small compared withn the differences in the way Acol is played.  I have detected some alarm amongst some iacers who think they need special knowlege to play against Acol and special bidding tools.  I don't think this is so.  Bridege is bridge and intelligent bridge is intelligent bridge.  It is also fun 

Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: drac on February 15, 2022, 07:47:38 PM
I will make myself available for Feb 26 @20:00 UTC if needed (provided reasonable notice)
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 15, 2022, 09:51:44 PM
Jack, what you say is all very reasonable. I completely agree that no great advanced study is necessary for acol opponents. Playing against Precision can be more of a problem since they have a lot of relay bids, so even with the best of intentions, their explanations are often a bit mystifying unless studied in advance. In acol after 1C-1H-1NT, we know the opener has a balanced hand with 15-17 (or approximately that) and a shape that warrants opening 1C rather than 1D. Good enough.

I think the only gadget Carl and I play that opponents need to know about in advance is Flannery, the old fashioned version where there are exactly five hearts and four spades, with a minimal point count, usually 15, but a Jx in a minor might not be counted as a hcp. Assume a max of 15 highs, allow for an extra useless J somewhere. We do not play that the auction 1H-1S promises five, although responder might choose to skip over a four-card major on occasion.

I like the general idea of trying to get this basic stuff straight. And I like accepting that there is a limit. Not for a long time, if ever, have I had a partnership with highly detailed knowledge. For example, with one partner he opened 1NT, my Rho asked if he could have a five-card major, I said we had no agreement that it could not be, but while I often did it I had never seen him do it. Meckstroth and Roswell do not bid exactly alike although I am sure they are more likely to demonstrate clone-like bidding than I and any pard are apt to display. Steve Robinson's Washington standard says that holding a 3=2=4=4 minimum hand you can open either minor. Ok, but I tend to open it 1D.  I try to be straightforward about these things but there are cases where I could not give more detail without making it up. We don't have fifty pages of bidding understandings, we try to make sure we know whether a bid is artificial or natural and go from there. Any gadget I do play I like to just find it written somewhere and play it that way rather than re-invent the wheel.


I expect this to be interesting and fun. That's the way I like it.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: wackojack on February 15, 2022, 10:49:20 PM
 "Meckstroth and Roswell do not bid exactly alike"

I didn't know Meckstroth played with aliens  :)
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 16, 2022, 01:00:53 AM
Quote from: wackojack on February 15, 2022, 10:49:20 PM
"Meckstroth and Roswell do not bid exactly alike"

I didn't know Meckstroth played with aliens  :)

I keep meaning to learn to type
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on February 17, 2022, 08:32:49 PM
ACOL Site has been updated with detailed info:
    The IAC versus Acol Club team match is taking place on Saturday 26th February, starting at 8:00 pm UK time (2000utc, 3pm eastern usa).
Deadline for registrations is February 21st, 2359utc.
It is hoped that 5 teams from each side will be taking part, with some from the IAC playing their Super Precision system. It had been hoped that we could hold this match in two timings, one earlier in the day, to allow Asian players access as well. Unfortunately, that has not been possible on this occasion. But, if successful, this match may well be repeated, and we will make every effort to bring that about in future.
    Sanya (holding bbo_iac) has agreed to start the teams at approximately two minute intervals. All matches will play the same boards. 16 in all... changing opposition at the half way point. Scoring will be done by IMPs.
    On the Monday after, the 28th February, instead of the usual “Dare” tournament and subsequent discussion with Cedar or poco1, they will give their analysis of the boards played in the match. I’m sure some hands will favour the IAC systems, and some will favour the Acolites. But there are sure to be aspects in the play and defence that are worth looking at.
    The primary objective is to learn how to play against unfamiliar systems, but, above all, to enjoy yourself!
Colin  (poco1)

Please all note the dates, times. We'll match teams in order they registered, so we can NOT promise all will have opponents, we'll advise after registration deadline ended.
All captains should write to IAC.at.BBO@gmail.com and submit the following info:
TEAM NAME
USERNAMES of all teammates, and who will play in 1st half and who in second (or we choose by order).
It's the captain's responsibility to assure that all teammates are available and online, ready to start playing in announced time.

So far, we have the following teams registered:

Team name: 7 no trumps
Captain: WackoJack
Kenberg+Jeschca1
WackoJack+Veeree

POSSIBLE MERGE OF 2 OCP TEAMS INTO 1

Team name: From All Countries
Captain: maysie
Uof FL Jen+lysblanc
brian_m+Boleo1 (or brian_m+OliverC)
soko52+RaNTuL

Team name: OCP Beta
Captain: Epee9
Epee9+Eszter5
Bfortune+sjAldan
p0stm0rtem+iamadeus

Team name: Fruit Machine Swiss
Captain: dblqueen
dblqueen+dickhy
bABsG+msphola

Team name: Somewhere Across the Border
Captain: Palych
bluBAYOU+Palych
FleuretteD+RMT2


Please let me know Team name, or I'll call you something funny that you might not find so funny ; )
And please be sure all partners are paired correctly, let me know if there are any changes, or who spare players might be, if any teammate lost connection / power, etc.



Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: wackojack on February 17, 2022, 11:11:07 PM
7 no trumps is the team name suggested by vee for us.

Toasterin + Tislafi would like to play in a team.  Team mates for Blu + Palych?  I am told that they do not know how to get onto this site. 

Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 18, 2022, 03:00:12 AM
Quote from: wackojack on February 17, 2022, 11:11:07 PM
7 no trumps is the team name suggested by vee for us.

Toasterin + Tislafi would like to play in a team.  Team mates for Blu + Palych?  I am told that they do not know how to get onto this site.

Sure, or 7NTXX. Or 7NTXXX, go for it! But the conservative 7NT is fine.
Jack, I appreciate your efforts.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: peuco on February 18, 2022, 05:44:10 PM
Hi i can join Blubayou in a TM against Acol, not as his partner
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: wackojack on February 18, 2022, 09:06:36 PM
If Blu is happy and you have a worthy partner then we could go with that.  Who is your partner?  We still have Toaterin + Tislafi  who I hear would like to play in a team but I have not heard from them.  So now I defer to Blu to choose who he wants as team mates.  Lets get this agreed  before Sanya's deadline of Feb 21st for registration.   
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: hoki on February 18, 2022, 09:24:25 PM
Am happy to make myself available ... to play with anyone,
Todd, Joe, Donna, Dima, Ken, Dmitry, whoever.

Oliver
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 19, 2022, 01:37:32 PM
Quote from: Curls77 on February 17, 2022, 08:32:49 PM
ACOL Site has been updated with detailed info:
    The IAC versus Acol Club team match is taking place on Saturday 26th February, starting at 8:00 pm UK time (2000utc, 3pm eastern usa).
Deadline for registrations is February 21st, 2359utc.
It is hoped that 5 teams from each side will be taking part, with some from the IAC playing their Super Precision system. It had been hoped that we could hold this match in two timings, one earlier in the day, to allow Asian players access as well. Unfortunately, that has not been possible on this occasion. But, if successful, this match may well be repeated, and we will make every effort to bring that about in future.
    Sanya (holding bbo_iac) has agreed to start the teams at approximately two minute intervals. All matches will play the same boards. 16 in all... changing opposition at the half way point. Scoring will be done by IMPs.
    On the Monday after, the 28th February, instead of the usual “Dare” tournament and subsequent discussion with Cedar or poco1, they will give their analysis of the boards played in the match. I’m sure some hands will favour the IAC systems, and some will favour the Acolites. But there are sure to be aspects in the play and defence that are worth looking at.
    The primary objective is to learn how to play against unfamiliar systems, but, above all, to enjoy yourself!
Colin  (poco1)

Please all note the dates, times. We'll match teams in order they registered, so we can NOT promise all will have opponents, we'll advise after registration deadline ended.
All captains should write to IAC.at.BBO@gmail.com and submit the following info:
TEAM NAME
USERNAMES of all teammates, and who will play in 1st half and who in second (or we choose by order).
It's the captain's responsibility to assure that all teammates are available and online, ready to start playing in announced time.

So far, we have the following teams registered:

Team name:?
Captain: WackoJack
Kenberg+Jeschca1
WackoJack+Veeree

Team name: From All Countries
Captain: maysie
maysie+Boleo1
lysblanc+oktayA
RaNTuL+Uof FL Jen

Team name:?
Captain: Epee9
Epee9+Eszter5
Bfortune+sjAldan
arda85+soko52

Team name:?
Captain: dblqueen
dblqueen+dickhy
bABsG+msphola


This team has not yet confirmed officially:
Blu+Palych
and another pair.

Please let me know Team name, or I'll call you something funny that you might not find so funny ; )
And please be sure all partners are paired correctly, let me know if there are any changes, or who spare players might be, if any teammate lost connection / power, etc.

A week from today!

Let me see if I have it about right.

I think the teams you list are all iac teams? Will we see acol teams listed? Are any of the listed teams playing Precision, Super or otherwise?

As to "USERNAMES of all teammates, and who will play in 1st half and who in second (or we choose by order)." we all seem, so far at least, to be four person teams. If I understand this correctly then all four of us will be playing both halves. That is, our team will lay 16 boards against one acol team, with Carl and I sitting against one pair from the acol team for the first 8 boards, and against the other pair from the same acol team for the second 8 boards.

Subs would be useful as insurance, hopefully not needed. I could ask Pat if she could be ready to hop in if needed.

It's true that some hands go better with one system, other hands go better with a different system. For example, you have 2=3=3=5 shape and partner opens 1 !S. With a 14 count, playing 2/1 you can show clubs and establish a GF by bidding 2 !C.  Otoh, if 2/1 is not a GF then, with an 11 count, you can bid 2 !C and rebid 2NT, showing close to opening values and clubs.  But for me, a good result or a bad result typically depends on judgment and luck, good or bad as it might be.

For the review, I hope we can discuss interesting hands.  I always go over my play in the DARE hands, often finding errors playing contracts that I made,  and I often post hands to get input from others. I have always preferred this approach. In college I would sit down with friends and discuss what we were supposed to be learning, and then I would go off by myself and think about it, or sometimes do this in reverse order. It suits me better than just listening. But that's me. I hope we can post and discuss some interesting hands.

Anyway: Saturday at 3 EST. I will be there, I am looking forward to it.



Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on February 19, 2022, 06:53:58 PM
Quote from: kenberg
I think the teams you list are all iac teams? Will we see acol teams listed? Are any of the listed teams playing Precision, Super or otherwise?
We register only IAC teams. Colin (poco1) registers ACOL teams. On Feb 22nd, we will compare the lists, hoping for 5 teams from each club and set who will be opposing whom. We'll publish all that on both IAC and ACOL sites, and also give direct email contacts to Captains of teams, so that they can communicate, state systems, and prepare defence.

Quote from: kenberg
As to "USERNAMES of all teammates, and who will play in 1st half and who in second (or we choose by order)." we all seem, so far at least, to be four person teams. If I understand this correctly then all four of us will be playing both halves. That is, our team will lay 16 boards against one acol team, with Carl and I sitting against one pair from the acol team for the first 8 boards, and against the other pair from the same acol team for the second 8 boards.
Teams can have more than 8 players, and have different pairs playing in 1st and second half, it's up to the Captain to decide given player's availability. If you have just 2 pairs and are willing to play all 16 boards, great!  :)
Having more players in teams, helps Captain to call as subs, if any of teammates loses connection/power, etc.

Quote from: kenberg
For the review, I hope we can discuss interesting hands.
Instead of usual Dare tourney+review, we'll have full review of hands played in matches on Monday, Feb 28th, at 1900utc, 2pm, the usual time.


The list of IAC teams posted above is just preliminary, and will remain so until we close the registrations.
I am now told that 2 OCP teams will merge into 1 team, so we are one team short for 5 teams ready in ACOL.
So please Hoki, Peuco, Donna, foxtrott, Vlad...   -- and all that want to participate, get in contact and register your team, there is just 2 days left.
For this 1st time of IAC vs ACOL event, we have just 1 date/time : FEB 26, 2000 utc.

I am sure all will go well, and if players like it, and there is interest for more, we'll schedule similar for next month, if possible with 2 alternative days/times. But that's to be seen later.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: blubayou on February 20, 2022, 02:28:41 PM
FleuretteD and RMT2  will join with Palych & Blu :)
  Team Name:  Somewhere Across the Border
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on February 20, 2022, 09:29:16 PM
Noted Blu!!
I could not imagine this event go without your team   :)

Just 1 more they to register, and we are still 1 team short, if OCP merges into 1 team. I so wish all of you that are interested and unpaired or unteamed would contact each other and form the team.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: tislafl on February 21, 2022, 03:36:58 PM
Please include Toasterln and tislafl in a team if possible.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on February 21, 2022, 09:57:46 PM
Quote from: tislafl on February 21, 2022, 03:36:58 PM
Please include Toasterln and tislafl in a team if possible.

Hi. The registrations are just about to be closed, and we have 5 full teams.
BLUbayou is happy to have you in his team, either to play 1 half or be there as subs, that's the best we can do for this event. I'll add your pair there tomorrow, when the registration is officially closed.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on February 22, 2022, 05:37:16 PM
THE REGISTRATIONS ARE NOW OFFICIALY CLOSED, WE GOT 5 TEAMS, TY ALL !!


Team name: 7 no trumps
Captain: WackoJack
Kenberg+Jeschca1
WackoJack+Veeree

Team name: From All Countries
Captain: maysie
Uof FL Jen+lysblanc
brian_m+Boleo1
soko52+RaNTuL

Team name: OCP Beta
Captain: Epee9
Epee9+Eszter5
Bfortune+sjAldan
p0stm0rtem+iamadeus

Team name: Fruit Machine Swiss
Captain: dblqueen
dblqueen+dickhy
bABsG+msphola

Team name: Somewhere Across the Border
Captain: Palych
bluBAYOU+Palych
FleuretteD+RMT2
Toasterln+tislafl

* * *
Colin (poco1) and me will now match you against an opposing team, we'll send to our captains the emails of other team captain, together with all other details.
It would be fantastic if all pairs have CC prepared, if you do not know how, please see here:
https://tinyurl.com/2w7562s8 (https://tinyurl.com/2w7562s8)

Matches will start promptly at 2000utc, 3pm eastern usa, 9pm Paris.
To players: Please be online, logged in BBO, at least 15 minutes before the matches should start. If anything happens meanwhile that prevents you playing, contact your captain to find a sub.
We will play 2 halfs: First 8 boards, then short break of say 10 mins, then another 8 boards, where the captains can exchange your teammates with another par, if they so wish.
Do not hesitate to ask questions, if you have any.
* * *
Everyone else, who is not in a team, please message bbo_iac if you are willing to sub. All members are most welcome to kibitz the teams, and assist to a lesson which will be held on Monday, Feb 28th on Cedar's table, 1900utc, 2pm eastern.

GOOD LUCK IAC !  :)

Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 25, 2022, 02:38:53 PM
Regarding the cc and bidding agreements.

Carl Jeschke and I will be playing for the 7NT team. Carl and I live near Baltimore MD, we met about five years ago and, before the pandemic, we played at the Baltimore Bridge Club roughly once a week. Sometimes we did well, sometimes not.

Otherwise put: We have some agreements, but we are not ready for the Bermuda Bowl (or for any much lesser contests). The conventions we play are probably all 40+years old We have a cc and will of course load it. I don't know if we can post it in advance. Here is a rough idea:

1 !S - 2 !C shows a club suit and decent values but it is not game forcing.
1 !S -1NT is about 6-10 hcps and is passable.
An opening of 2 !H or 2 !S iS is a weak 2. 2NT by responder is Ogust, a  new suit response to 2M is passable.
Opening 2 !C is artificial and almost game forcing. Responses are "controls, with A=2,K=1. 2 !C -2D shows at most a K in some one suit, 2 !C - 2 !H shows 2 kings or one ace, etc. After 2 !C - 2 !H we are in a total GF, after 2 !C - 2 !D we are not.
A 2 !D opening is Flannery, exactly five hearts and four spades. The point count is 11-15 but a stiff J in the minors might not be counted as a hcp.
We play strong jump shifts.

That should give you a general idea.  I will try to give more details (well, a few more) later.

If we can somehow post a cc in advance I will do it.

Mostly we play what probably would have been called standard American thirty years ago. Fourth best leads if the suit has a J or better, but second highest from a bunch of spot cards.
1430, Gerber, Puppet Stayman.
Opening 1NT is 15-17 and can have a 5 card major.
1 !C - 1 !D does not deny a four-card major although responder might well skip over a diamond suit with a modest hand and a decent major.

That's it for now. We can all go out for a pint after the game.




Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: blubayou on February 26, 2022, 07:35:29 AM
A "tweak" for hoped-for future events  just occurred to me Thursday:  We would like the match to be divided into THREE THIRDS  (3X 6  or only 3X 5).  This would be a giant step forward for Democracy for 6+player teams,  as all of us  could join for 2/3  of the deals, instead of having one anchor-pair plus two "helpers"!
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on February 26, 2022, 04:50:59 PM
ACOL side had lots of drop out in last couple of days, giving Coling hard time to have full 2 pairs on each team.
We apologize for not being able to set captains discuss the systems timely, it was just impossible with constant changes.

I so hope this today's event will run smoothly, and I depend on all of you to be ready to play, promptly accept the invitations, and be nice to partners, teamies and ACOL "cousins".

Quote from: blubayou on February 26, 2022, 07:35:29 AM
A "tweak" for hoped-for future events  just occurred to me Thursday:  We would like the match to be divided into THREE THIRDS  (3X 6  or only 3X 5).  This would be a giant step forward for Democracy for 6+player teams,  as all of us  could join for 2/3  of the deals, instead of having one anchor-pair plus two "helpers"!
This is one great suggestion Blu : )
It would work for all teams, regardless if they have just 2 or 3 pairs. If we repeat the event, which we all hope, this might be exact setup for next events, 3*6 boards is not too long, the break can be just 5 mins allowing u get a drink, etc.
 

See you all shortly, matches start in just 3 hours from now.
GOOD LUCK IAC  :-*
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 26, 2022, 05:41:07 PM
With regard to Blu's suggestion: Presumably it would not be difficult to let the teams decide whether, with three pairs each team, to play in thirds or, with two pairs on each team, to play in halves.
Of course if one team had two pairs and the other team had three pairs, they could try to play midway in between but that would require some serious innovation!

AFAIK, the 7NTrumpers will be there, ready and rarin. Well, anyway, we will be there.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 26, 2022, 10:08:35 PM
Congrats to the dreads.
It was a very pleasant game, I hope we do more.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: EddyHaskel on February 26, 2022, 10:41:48 PM
Anybody compile the results of the matches?
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 27, 2022, 12:30:12 AM
7NT versus the dreadnoughts: 29-26 in favor of the dreads.
We lost the first half 24-11 and won the second half 15-5, totally we get the dreads winning 29-26. I would say we needed a last-minute field goal ti tie the score but that might not resonate.

I had might look up another score later. No. I think I will let others list the scores of others.

We (the 7NoTrumps) had a close and enjoyable game that we lost by 3 imps. As always, it's not difficult to find errors accounting for 3 imps. Oh. Did I mention I enjoyed it? Well, I enjoyed it. So did Carl, my partner.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: palych on February 27, 2022, 03:17:39 PM
H.M.S. Dreadnought:    scottdunda - egg46 - ccr3 - DonnaS                            5
Somewhere Across the:        bluBAYOU - Palych - tislafl - Toasterln         22

Somewhere Across the:    tislafl - Palych - RMT2 - FleuretteD              21
H.M.S. Conqueror:    DonnaS - draculea - egg46 - scottdunda                     34

For a total 43-39 for Somewhere...

Enjoyed too.

Looks like boards were the same for all matches, would be good to see butler score :)
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 27, 2022, 05:45:20 PM
Huh! I thought we were playing against the dreadnoughts.

Whoever they were they beat us!
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on February 27, 2022, 06:00:49 PM
THANKS SO MUCH TO ALL THAT PARTICIPATED,
you guys are jewels!!!
And VERY SPECIAL TY to Donna, Pat and Vlad, that subbed!

Congrats to the best IAC team:
Somewhere Across the Border
bluBAYOU & Palych
Toasterln & tislafl
FleuretteD & RMT2
WTG guys!!

Of course, congrats to all ACOL teams that won!

I tried to attach a file here, with full scores of all teams, but I can not, sorry.
See it here:
https://freeimage.host/i/1yQ1G2 (https://freeimage.host/i/1yQ1G2)
I will also mail all captains with PDFs of all matches, ask them to send you if you are interested.
I also have "travellers" of all boards, if you want them, let me know, and I will send.

Once again, thanks for accepting the challenge, I hope you enjoyed the fun, and look forward next?
Do not forget that there is the review of all boards, at Cedar's table, with Poco1, WackoJack and Brian_m. Monday - 28th Feb, at 1900 utc.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on February 28, 2022, 03:07:25 PM
I hope that today's (Monday) discussion will discuss play as well as bidding.
I find play more interesting than bidding.
But also good play can often rescue an overreach in the bidding.

As is often the case, I can't think of any hand from the 16 that we played where it much mattered whether a 2 over 1 was or was not game forcing, and offhand I cannot recall a hand, there may have been some, where playing a weak or a strong no trump was decisive in reaching a final contract. Judgment was important, it always is, and then the hand needs to be played.

Anyway, I plan on listening and I hope to hear some discussion of play.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: wackojack on March 01, 2022, 10:26:30 AM
A big thankyou to Sanya who did the bulk of the work in getting the teams togetherto play the Acol teams and to getting the results out. 

My particular match was lost by 3 imps.  I will in the next few days post some of the hands that were interesting and where I think we should have done better.  I note that one of the matches was between iac players and not against Acol club.   (Blu's team winning by 4 imps) 

I have to say that our results against the Acol club were disappointing as we were beaten in every match.  We could and should have done better.  imo It did not suggest that Acol was better than 2/1, SA and OCP.  All it meant that we lost out through inferior hand evaluation, bidding judgement and play of the cards.  Maybe that does not matter so long as we all enjoyed ourselves. Or does it?

We must not conclude that Acol is a better system than SA, 2/1 or Precision.  We only have to look at the top world teams and see that Acol just does not figure at all. 2/1, variants of SA, Precision, and Polish club dominate.  I was brought up on Acol and then switched to SA and 2/1 because I saw that on the world stage that Acol was not up to it. 

Sadly imo the UK particularly at club level is soundly Acol based and it is being tought to youngsters here.  One of the reasons is that (wrongly) Acol is thought to be more natural than SA or 2/1 because any opening bid promises at least 4 cards and so is easy to teach. 

I expected the OCP (Precision) team to do better.  I have absolutley no doubt that it is an excellent system (and possibly world beating) for experts and so it was particularly disappointing to see that they were defeated.  Is the problem that the mental energy required to grap the complexity of the system leaves little left to refine hand evaluation and card playing skills? 
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kenberg on March 01, 2022, 01:28:21 PM
Yes, thanks to everyone.
I hope we can do it again, the work might get easier the second or third time around. Or not.

You say
"I have to say that our results against the Acol club were disappointing as we were beaten in every match.  We could and should have done better.  imo It did not suggest that Acol was better than 2/1, SA and OCP.  All it meant that we lost out through inferior hand evaluation, bidding judgement and play of the cards.  Maybe that does not matter so long as we all enjoyed ourselves. Or does it?"

Oh, it matters. It matters in the sense that I always try to win. Otoh I long ago realized that I will often lose. And I was not representing my country or representing the Standard American tribe, I was representing me.

However, it is an opportunity to look at a pet theory. My expectation is that if we look at the good and bad results of the 16 boards and ask the cause, we will see that which bidding system we were playing mattered on at most 1 or 2 boards.  I also expect that many boards came out good or bad based on the play. I believe I quoted Rodwell before as saying that he did not know whether bidding or play was the more important part of bridge but he knew that he wanted it to be play. I agree.

I read somewhere that at the level of the Bermuda Bowl bidding is more important. The thinking was that everyone in the BB plays the cards extremely well so the edge has to come from their 200 pages of notes on their bidding system. Maybe so.

I posted board 3 from the second half and I see that you have commented. I will follow up on that. Our bidding was off, but I could have rescued the hand with good play. And the defense could have made it tougher for me. Or easier for me. This is often the way it is. Bidding is a way to get to a reasonable spot and sometimes you end up in a spot that needs luck to make. Or maybe in a spot that should make but doesn't.

Anyway, I hope we discuss the hands, and I hope we get to play some more with the acols.

Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: Curls77 on March 06, 2022, 08:45:43 PM
Quote from: wackojack on March 01, 2022, 10:26:30 AM
I have to say that our results against the Acol club were disappointing as we were beaten in every match.  We could and should have done better.  imo It did not suggest that Acol was better than 2/1, SA and OCP.  All it meant that we lost out through inferior hand evaluation, bidding judgement and play of the cards.  Maybe that does not matter so long as we all enjoyed ourselves. Or does it?

You are SO RIGHT Jack.
Systems do not matter, or won't matter much in 16 random boards. What matters is be on the same page with your partner, concentrate on the game, and of course, ENJOY :)

Please check new thread.
Title: Re: How about challenging the Acol club to a teams match?
Post by: kookee on April 27, 2022, 12:59:28 AM
I have found a partner Neha. So Neha (nehabridge) and Shankar(kookee). Hope we can find another pair playing 2/1