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Author Topic: on the edge?  (Read 1699 times)

kenberg

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on the edge?
« on: February 16, 2022, 04:08:50 PM »
Your hand:
QJ9
KQJ6
A8
QT43

Matchpoints, red against white, you deal and open 1NT, the uncontested auction begins:

1NT-2 !C - 2 !H - 3 !S -?

Of course we need to know what to make of the 3 !S call. We are playing Robot Standard, in fact we are playing with the Robots, so we go by their agreements. 3 !S shows a heart fit, no stiff, and 15+ total points.

I assume we bid 4 !D.
Partner now bids 4 !H. What next?

1NT   2 !C
2 !H   3 !S
4 !D   4 !H
?

My theme here is that it is not enough to have a conventional agreement, we also have to know what happens next.

Your thoughts?





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Ken

Masse24

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Re: on the edge?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2022, 04:37:04 PM »
I don't play enough with the bots to know how they think, but based on your description they play a basic 3OM suit agreement/slam move. Lacking a full Baze or Reverse Baze structure, it's the next best thing.

Since I have:
a.) shown a diamond control and denied a club control,
b.) a minimum 1NT, and
c.) partner has bid game to also deny a club control

at Matchpoints I will sign off.

But correct me if I'm wrong, do the bots only bid aces? If so, and I am stuck with bot standard, then I pass.
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wackojack

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Re: on the edge?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2022, 07:18:09 PM »
your bot partner has shown 15+ and over 4 !D has signed off presumably meaning 15 or at most a bad 15.  You have 15 so pass.  If partner turns up with 3 aces and the K !D there may be a play for 6 !H but that would appear to be your best chance for slam.
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kenberg

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Re: on the edge?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2022, 08:24:37 PM »
I am glad to hear these responses. Actually, the hand I gave you was held by the bot. I will now give both of them.

QJ9
KQJ6
A8
QT43


A8
A875
KJ53
K98

After
1NT   2 !C
2 !H 
I checked to see if a 3 !S bid meant what I thought it did and indeed, it shows 15+ total points and a heart fit. Well, that's what I have so, seeing no reason to deny I had it, I bid 3 !S. Partner bid 4NT, I bid 5 !H, 2 keys w/o the Q, pard bid 6 !H.

Ok, I have been in worse slams but this is a stretch. As it happened, the opening lead was a small club to the A and a club back ruffed so I did not have to think about how to play it. Of course such a ruff can happen whenever you are in a suit slam off a side ace, but it seems pretty iffy even if that does not happen.

My reasoning with my 3 !S call is that slam was not out of the question from what I could see in my hand, and 3 !S shows what I have in my hand, so it seemed right. After 4 !D and then my 4 !H it seemed pard, with pretty much of a minimum, could pass.

I gave the pair of hands to the robots and their auction went:

1NT   2 !C
2 !H   4 !H
Pass

I don't get it. 3 !S shows 15+ and a !H fit, I have 15+ and a !H fit.


https://tinyurl.com/y8u9bqp9

My main point is not to gripe about the bots, my intended point is that conventions are not of much use unless you agree to what comes next.

Possibly my hand is a rifle weal for raising the possibility of a slam, I just went by the stated criterion. I think I might ask for a bit more in the future. Still, the stated level is 15+ and I have it.
I figured I have 15 hcps and with the !H fit I can count my shape for 1 more. All true but it will still be touch and go. I think pard was definitely too optimistic but I am also thinking the requirement for the 3 !S call should be raised a point or so.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2022, 03:28:36 AM by kenberg »
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Ken

kenberg

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Re: on the edge?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2022, 02:06:46 PM »
Thinking just a bit more
Suppose the NT opener, contrary to our thinking, decides to bid 4NT over the 4 !H. The response is 5 !H. Not too late to get out. He can ask himself what I, the 3 !S bidder, did not bid 4 !s over his 4 !D. Two reasons are possible. I don't have the spade A, or I have a minimum for my 3 !S call. If I have the minimum, then it seems right to leave it in 5 !H. But suppose the 3 !S bidder does not have the !S A. Then he had better have the !S K else the opponents can take the first two !S tricks. So give the 3 !S bidder the !S K and, since he bid 5 !H, and we are supposing that he has the !C K and the !H A.  But wait. If he has !SK, !H A, !C A that's a good start and presumably if he had more than a minimum 3 !S call he would have done something other than 4 !H over 4 !D.

So it seems logical, perhaps just logical in hindsight, to conclude that if the 3 !S bidder has either the !S A or else the !S K and the other two aces, he must have a minimum hand and so it is time to get out.

Responder has 15 hcps and a doubleton, that's 15 with a mild +. I think maybe it's not enough for a 3 !S call but it's close. A flat 15 definitely is not enough. I think 3 !S is a close call but I think a human would have passed probably 4 !H or at least passed 5 !H. And if he is going to pass 5 !H he should probably just pass 4 !H.
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Ken

wackojack

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Re: on the edge?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2022, 05:25:53 PM »
The robots don't seem to have joined up thinking.  Just like us humans.
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