Author Topic: Dare to Declare 1 April hand 6  (Read 2813 times)

wackojack

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Dare to Declare 1 April hand 6
« on: April 01, 2019, 10:48:11 PM »

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&myhand=M-2548983543-1554141739

Is this an April fool? 

It seems to me that you have to decide which minor suit finesse to take.  I decided to try the  ! !C finesse for 2 reasons:

1. South I know has K  !H.  So North is North is likely to have at least 1 minor suit King. So, which minor suit King do I want North to have?  K !C of course. 
2. If both minor suit finesses work then I make 13 tricks.  If the  !D finesse works then I have to forgo the  !C finesse and so make 12 tricks.
3. If I go for the  !C finesse there is less faffing around with entries.  So keep it simple.

Can anyone tell me why I should go for the  !D finesse?

Incidentally I made the contract when South didn't take his K  !C, and then when I abandoned  !C after North showed out and ran the Q  !D, South once more gifted me by not covering the Q  !D.  I had drawn 3 rounds of trump. C'est la vie!

jcreech

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Re: Dare to Declare 1 April hand 6
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2019, 01:48:30 AM »
I also made this with a defensive error.  The difference was that the opening lead was temporarily the !C 2.  Although I can argue with myself that I thought there would be fewer problems finessing the diamond than the club, I cannot help feeling that I was influenced by that temporary lead.  Who leads away from the King against a slam?

My partner clearly thought I had taken an inferior line.  Truly, I thought both lines were roughly equivalent.  They both involved a finesse that may need to be repeated.  They both seemed to require that I only pull two rounds of trump, so I could use the third round as transportation back to my hand (to repeat the club finesse, or to be able to cash the third diamond).  I may have deluded myself into believing that I had less risk in diamonds because if LHO had Kxx in clubs, the second finesse would be ruffed (but coming back to my hand would have taken care of the last pesky trump).  So the only argument I still have that is valid is that it is more esthetically pleasing to ruff the heart with a small trump than an honor (it only valid in that it is esthetically pleasing, not that it is a truly valid argument for the diamond over the club).

Arik says (lesson 23-3 in aaBridge):  "A successful !C finesse will not guarantee the contract, but if the !D finesse works, it may come in without the !C finesse."  The problem is that the opposite is also true once the trump break no worse than 3-2.

So in my final analysis, I made this contract the way that Arik intended at least in part because of information not available to other declarers.



A stairway to nowhere is better than no stairway at all.  -Kehlog Albran

kenberg

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Re: Dare to Declare 1 April hand 6
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2019, 12:20:07 PM »
This may require further thought. After the 3-2 !S split, a working !C finesse will bring in the contract. There is an issue if N has all four !C but it is solvable. After the third !S. lay down the !C 9. If it's covered, great, the !C easily run. If not covered, play small from the board. S shows out repeat the finesse, you are now on the board but a !D back to the hand allows you to lead the third !C from hand and bring in the suit. You toss the !H on the last !C and lead the last !D, making the hand. So if the !C K is onside then, after the 3-2 !S break, the !C finesse brings in the hand. 


Now why might the !D finesse be preferable? Well, to get to the board we have to play a !C to the A, right. How else?  If either player has a stiff K then the !C come in. And if not, there is always the !D finesse. Or is there?

Suppose the !C K does not fall and suppose the !D king is onside. We lead the !D Q from the board and S, if alert, covers. We take the A and now we have two good !D but we are in hand with the T3, the J on the board, and no way to get back and forth. Ok, that's a solvable problem, maybe. We only cash two rounds of trump, we play a !C to the A, if the K falls we cash the last trump and run the !C as above.  if it doesn't fall then we lead the !D Q, it goes Q K A, back to the J, trump back to had, !D T throwing the !H, lead the !C 8 and claim. 

but there is a potential problem. When leaving a trump out, the !C to the A might drop a stiff K, but it also might be ruffed. So we need to look  at percentages. I'll use http://iac.pigpen.org.uk/Articles.php. A 3-1 split happens 50% of the time, any of the four cards is equally likely to be the stiff, so we have a stiff K 12.5% of the time. A 4-0 split happens 10% of the time, and even if it does it's (barely) possible that the person with the !c void only had two !D. This last item is not likely a priori, and usually we would have heard from an opponent if he had 11 cards in two suits, so we can probably drop that possibility. But it does seem like we have a 12/5 % shot at dropping the K and only a 19% chance of the A being trumped if we take only two rounds of trump and the play a !C to the A. We succeed if the !C K falls, we succeed if the A isn't ruffed and the !D K is onside. I am also ignoring the possibility that the second round of !D will be ruffed.


So i think the line of: Cash two trump, !C to A, run the !D is slightly superior to the line of: Cash three trump and run the !C. Not much superior, but slightly. But the reason is not that a successful !C finesse might not suffice to bring in the contract. If the !C K is onside, the contract comes home if we draw the last trump and run the !C 9.   

So I think. Maybe I have missed something.

Added: I was a little quick about probabilities, more care is needed.

After T3, having won the !H and cashed two !S, all following, I considered two lines:

Line 1: Cash the third !S and run the !C 9. This always brings in the contract if the !C K is with N and always fails if the !C K is with S. Even if N shows out and declarer goes up with the A and goes after the !D, the transportation is such that we cannot get rid of the !H. So this line seems to have exactly 50 % chance of succeeding.

line 2. at T4 lead a small !C to the A. This succeeds if the !C K is stiff on either side, and it succeeds if both defenders follow low and the !D K is onside. This is where more care is needed. We calculate the probability of each and add them since they are mutually exclusive events, call them 2A and 2B.   
2A: Stiff K dropping is, as mentioned, 12.5%.   
2B: Both will follow low if the suit is 2-2, that's 40%, and it will happen if the suit is 3-1 and the !C K is not stiff. That's 37.5%. So both will follow low 77.5 % of the time. Now, in this line,  we still need the !D finesse to work, and that will happen half the time.So we take half of 77.5 and get 38.25 as the percentage for 2B. We add the percentage for 2A to the percentage for 2B and get 12.5+38.25 which gives us 50.75 %.


Conclusion: The odds for line 1, cashing the third trump and running the finesse, are 50%, the odds for line 2, leaving the third trump out and playing a !C to the A, are 50.75%. Ok, 50.75 is bigger than 50.

Note: We could say that the odds for line 2 are slightly better, since it might also work if !C are 4-0. That's providing the person with the  !C void doesn't have the third !S. Yes, that's possible, but that gives him 11 red cards. Pretty unlikely, and also we might have heard from him in the auction. So maybe make it 50.75%  plus a little. Very little I think. Line 1 seems to be a straightforward 50%. Also, if we get into unlikely distributions, the !D could be 7-1 in which case, in line 2 where after !D Q K A we lead back to the !D J it gets ruffed. So all in all, I guess it's 50.75% and then plus or minus a little.

A final point: Of course no one except maybe a computer program does all of these calculations at the table. But the original justification for preferring the !D finesse, namely that the !C finesse might not suffice even if it is working,  seems to be simply wrong.  If the !C finesse works, that would bring in the hand. So, unless I have missed something, the only way to prefer the !D finesse is by going through all these calculations. It gives the added chance of dropping a stiff !C K but there are downsides that have to be evaluated to see if it is worth it, and it's close.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 03:05:03 PM by kenberg »
Ken

wackojack

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Re: Dare to Declare 1 April hand 6
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2019, 05:23:28 PM »
Fantastic work you have put into this Ken.  Instead of analysing this in terms of suit distribution, I would like to look at it in terms of the minor suit King position.

I list the 4 combinations and their a priori probabilities:
Line 1: Cash the third !S and run the !C 9.
Line 2. Cash 2 spades, then lead a small !C to the A, then Run Q  !D, (if South covers) over to J  !D, Trump to Q, A  !D discard Q  !H
Assume initially that trumps are 3-2
(a) North has both Kings  ............................24% ...............Line 1 succeeds Line 2 fails
(b) South has both kings  ............................24% ...............Line 1 fails    Line 2 succeeds provided  !D s not 7-1 Discount this as opps would have bid  !D s
(c) North has K  !D and South has K  !C ........26% ............... Line 1 fails   Line 2 succeeds provided A !C is a singleton (6.25%) Giving a total chance of 1.6%
(d) North has K  !C and South has K  !D........ 26% ............... Line 1 succeeds, Line 2 succeeds provided  !D not 7-1 (discounted)

So Chance of Line 1 succeeding = 50% and chance of Line 2 succeeding = 51.6%,  This result is very similar to Ken's result.
I confess that it did not occur to me when I followed Line 1 that I could improve my chances by about 1% with Line 2. 

What if when you lead the 2nd trump you see them splitting 4-1?  How should the play change?  No time to look at that now