IAC Forums
Chew the Fat! => The IAC Café => Topic started by: Curls77 on August 19, 2019, 10:16:18 PM
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When BBO said they will stop on windows client and forced most members go to web flash version, many found it too hard to cope, and sadly many left bbo for ever.
Now another change comes, we gotta switch to html web version. I personally can not find one single argument to justify such bad design and programming, but fact is we all gotta assume and adapt to this change as flash will stop working any moment. Many members will struggle find IAC room. trmys, tournaments, undo's etc etc--- So here I ask is any willing volunteer to make a manual of that, similar to what we made for passing to flash ( http://iac.pigpen.org.uk/smf/index.php )?
That said, pls do not get discouraged, participate in BBO forums and report errors, suggest improvements, within time BBO will fix most of essentials, I am sure.
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Maybe we can experiment around a bit with the voice feature of the html version, maybe play something in teaching mode? It would not have to be thought of as a lesson, just as something where we try out the voice of the new version. Who knows, maybe we will like it.
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Good idea, yes please do that whenever you have time :)
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I'll experiment around a bit. My computer is not hooked up to a microphone but Becky's (my wife's) is so I need to borrow her computer or borrow the mic and hook it up. I was using the new version playing the other day just for playing and, after a little initial confusion, found it to be fine.
I think it could be interesting to have all four players on audio so as to somewhat mimic f2f games. Here is a f2f example from the other day. The uncontested auction by the opponents: 1 !C - 1 !D - 1NT - 3NT all pass. Partner put out a card to lead and asked if I had a question. I did. I knew my Lho but had never before seen my Rho so I asked if they had any agreement about whither, after 1 !C - 1 !D, opener would feel free to rebid 1NT with one or both majors. Well, they had not played together recently, they had long ago, they had not discussed this. I said fine. They are not required to disclose an agreement that they do not have. At a maor tournament players are expected to have discussed such matters, at a club game against an occasional partnership I am fine with "undiscussed". A little back and forth conversation, based on trust, can lead to a quick resolution of such matters. Apparently this audio feature is only available in teaching mode but I think I would like playing some hands using it.
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I seem to have found my first problem, perhaps I am going at it wrong but:
I can log onto bbo and immediately open a practice table that automatically opens in the main bridge club, after which I can enable voice for myself and for others. But if I first go to the IAC to open a table, it looks as if I lose the option to open a practice table with voice.
Am I right about this?
I am working on the assumption that problems are solvable, and that sometimes the problem is that I simply don't understand the correct procedure.
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Hi Ken,
For my class, I was able to open a teaching table in the club with voice. My problem, or rather the problem of some who attended was the inability to hear. At least one person in each of these categories said they could hear - iPhone Safari, Chrome, Firefox. I'm not sure about Microsoft Edge - I know that I personally have more problems with Edge than Chrome - it freezes more often. Hope this helps.
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Jim, you are using the new v3? If so:
I bring up BBO, I get a menu that includes Casual and Practice. If I choose Practice I can continue on to open a table and then select Voice. But I am in the Main section. If I select Casual then I can get to IAC and then I can start an IAC table but unless I have gone blind, I am not then offered a voice option.
I'm using Chrome.
I have not actually used the Voice in the Main room yet, I just set it up to be used. To use it I have to go to Becky's computer and she uses Firefox. Hopefully what works in one works in the other, they are both pretty mainline.
We could try the following sometime: You get a voice table going in iac, on v3 if possible, I'll join, you can add the voice for me and we can then at least give proof that that much of it works at least with us. It will take a little planning since I have to borrow Becky's computer.
This all must be workable, it's just a matter of seeing how.
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Ken,
When you started the table within IAC, did you change the table type from IMPs to Teaching. If I choose IMPs (the default), I don't get the voice option, but if I choose Teaching, I do.
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That's what I was missing! I figured it would be something simple. It usually is.
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Correct, everyone first must get to IAC, then open the teaching table.
When we tested, several members can hear voice ONLY if they were allowed to speak as well, and they all used different browsers. Reported to BBO, but no answer so far.
What is really important in lessons is undo feature, and even tho most our members do cooperate with host / mentor / teacher, some that do not hear, or understand, can refuse allow undo; and now in V3 teacher can not "impose" undo at the table. Also reported to BBO.
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I am, perhaps, seeing where some problems lie. BBO provides a Practice Table, IAC provides a Teaching Table, and they are not the same concept. What works well for one doesn't work as well for the other.
The Practice idea suits me well, but no doubt the Teaching is what many would want. It should not be all that difficult for BBO to provide both options, once they have completed the Practice option. As noted, the key would be that in teaching, one person, the designated Teacher, would be able to undo the choices made by players. I can imagine it would also be useful for the Teacher, part way through the hand, to illustrate a point by moving some of the cards from one had to another. Thus he could say "If the cards lie like this, Line A will work, but if they lie this other way, then Line B will work, and how can we decide which?" I suppose various Teachers would want various things. There is some potential here.
Maybe they are working on this.
The problem that some can listen with, say, Chrome and others cannot is a mystery to me but perhaps it is solvable. After all, we just solved the problem that I could open a Practice Table in BBO but I could not open a Teaching Table in IAC. Often these computer problems just require a simple maneuver that eludes us. We all have examples, I am sure.
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BBO Practice in V3 is just that - a section to open a bidding practice table, a teaching practice table or a Bridge Master practice table. The old version was the same. To open a "practice" table (be it bidding or teaching) in the IAC, in both versions you must start the table in the IAC.
The Host of a teaching table in V2 had the ability to undo but not the ability to claim. It seems to be the opposite in V3 - Host cannot undo but can claim.
To change the cards in a particular hand can be done through Hand Editor. Many times Wisskers (for whom I host numerous tables) has made a mistake in a hand or wants to demonstrate a different lay of the cards. I export the hand to Hand Editor, change whatever needs changed, then upload the corrected hand to the table. Wouldn't it be nice to actually be able to move the cards on the table.
I have had many problems with the teaching table feature (no undo for Host, no copy/paste, loss of Chat Manager lines, no "Save All Deals", Skype/Voice not working at the same time, unable to get voice on Safari, clumsy pull down menus and Hand Editor) which I have noted and sent to BBO with no reply received. But as I was told many years ago by a BBO rep, teaching tables are not priority. Now I am just happy that we have bidding, teaching and FREE Bridge Master so am finished complaining to them.
V3 is essentially a program for mobile use and not intended for my 21 inch desktop monitor. Since I don't even own a cell phone I guess I will just be content with what they offer. ;)
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I think v3 offers a practice option other than bidding or teaching., If I understand correctly, four players could dit at a table, they would all have voice, they could both bid and play a series of hands and chat about them as they play. People do a version of that now, but the chatting is typed in. I would prefer voice, partly because I am a terrible typist but also because i find voice conversation to be better. The back and forth allows misunderstandings to be quickly cleared up.
How do we learn? No doubt this varies with the person. There can be direct instruction, back and forth chatting, quiet reading and thinking, drill exercises, etc. Most of us can see some use in all of these. I often prefer back and forth chatting, together with, at another time, quiet reading and thinking. The Forum provides long term written out chatting but a table where everyone could speak might work well also. Or maybe it would be like the Tower of Babel.
As to mobile devices, I agree entirely. I am sitting in a comfortable chair drinking coffee, typing on a full size keyboard and looking at a large screen. The attraction of smartphones for this sort of activity has always escaped me. Yes, I could then do it anywhere, but I would rather do it here, near the coffeepot and the raspberries. And, in the evening, the wine.
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On either version you can practice at a teaching table with 4 people bidding, playing and all having voice. The host just allows requests to speak.
There is no other option that I am aware of for practice without comparisons to other tables.
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hi all, As I've had a long layoff due to illness, I'm grappling to get used to v3 and would be happy to generate documentation on its use, if that hasn't been done yet.
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Welcome back Ian :)
Documentation on V3 is definately needed, and none yet gout around to do it, so if you would, we'd very much appreciate! Thank you!
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As things currently stand no one but the teacher should use the Voice feature otherwise you are in for a whole world of hurt. Some won't be able other everyone and some won't hear anyone. At worst you will have someone talking right over the teacher without being aware of it.
As for Chrome: No one should be using Chrome for anything. The lates revelation is that at least 500 Chrome extensions are reporting everything you do to people interested in your interests, what you buy etc.
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I use Chrome, my wife uses Firefox, neither of us much cares for Edge, but my hope is that we can each make our own choice. Early on in the updated BBO there were some features, I have forgotten the details, that worked on Chrome but not on Firefox. I am pretty sure this has been fixed. Perhaps some browsers are too obscure so that it is unreasonable to accommodate them but that doesn't apply to Firefox, Chrome or Edge. And no doubt there are other much used browsers that stuff should work on. I am not a techie so I cannot make a complete list.
Here is something that I would like to do but can't figure out how to do. I would like to seat four robots at a table and play a hand that I give them (this much I can do) and then I would like to save the bidding and play afterward so I can post it for discussion.
I am thinking it would be like "Are you smarter than a robot?", or at any rate it would be a way of seeing and discussing just how the bots think.
Most techie things are really easy once someone says how it is done, and really impossible to figure out without this guidance. Does anyone know how to do this?
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As things currently stand no one but the teacher should use the Voice feature otherwise you are in for a whole world of hurt. Some won't be able other everyone and some won't hear anyone. At worst you will have someone talking right over the teacher without being aware of it.
As for Chrome: No one should be using Chrome for anything. The lates revelation is that at least 500 Chrome extensions are reporting everything you do to people interested in your interests, what you buy etc.
I knew there was good reason I hated Chrome ever since it was created.
I suggest do not use Edge either, it will be discontinued soon, and does NOT show most of V3 buttons.
Here is something that I would like to do but can't figure out how to do. I would like to seat four robots at a table and play a hand that I give them (this much I can do) and then I would like to save the bidding and play afterward so I can post it for discussion.
Ken, as far as I know it is impossible put 4 robots, at least 1 seat has to be human player, teacher or anyone else allowed by the teacher.
I can not seem to find where in V3 we can rotate hands previously saved. Does anyone know?
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I have put four robots at a table, that I can do. And I can load a hand of my choosing for them to play. I do this sometimes with discussed hands, just to see what the bots would do. But I cannot then easily save what it is that they did. I could copy it all down but so far I have not done that and then present ti but so far I have not done that.
Now that I said I can do it, I had better go give it a try to make sure it wasn't a day dream. But I am pretty sure.
Yes, I did it. I tried sending you the hand, perhaps it will get to you. What I could not do is grab the played had in a way that I could post it on the Forum. I will experiment around more later.
To each his own on the browser issue. I prefer Whoppers to Big Macs. I see the browser choice as sort of like that. Use the one that suits you. I can't recall why I switched from Firefox to Chrome, it was a couple of years back at least. There was a short period when some of the things that worked in Chrome did not work in Firefox. Before that I was alternating, one or the other, by whim. But then I started using Chrome as a default. But when I tried an aaBridge thing I could not get it to work in Chrome but it did in Firefox.I imagine developers want their stuff to work on all, or mostly all. browsers and usually that's the case. Sometimes there is a short period when that is not so.
OK, so here is a hand. It's a saved hand from my collections, I no longer recall why I saved it. I put four robots at a table and had them play it. And then I copied out the record of the play in this less than great form.
Not everyone cares that much about what the bots do, but here they stopped at 3 !S and made 3 !S. Well done, guys. They appreciate some kind words now and then. It looks as if 4 !H would be off 1.
https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=st||pn|~~M12498kj,~~M8202g9n,~~M13454kd,~~M2767dfb|md|3SKHJ874DAQ652CJ96,SQ842HQ53D94CKQT5,STHKT96DKT3CA8432,SAJ97653HA2DJ87C7|sv|o|rh||ah|Board%201|mb|P|mb|1S|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20!S;%2011-21%20HCP;%2012-22%20total%20points%20|mb|2D|an|Two-level%20overcall%20--%205+%20!D;%2010+%20HCP;%2011-18%20total%20points%20|mb|2S|an|Free%20major%20raise%20--%203+%20!S;%206-10%20total%20points%20|mb|3D|an|3+%20!D;%206-10%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|P|mb|3S|an|3+%20!S;%206-10%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|H4|pc|HQ|pc|HK|pc|HA|pc|SA|pc|SK|pc|S2|pc|ST|pc|S3|pc|H7|pc|S4|pc|C2|pc|S8|pc|H6|pc|S6|pc|D2|pc|H5|pc|H9|pc|H2|pc|H8|pc|D3|pc|D7|pc|DQ|pc|D4|pc|DA|pc|D9|pc|DT|pc|DJ|pc|HJ|pc|H3|pc|HT|pc|SJ|pc|C7|pc|C6|pc|CK|pc|CA|pc|C8|pc|D8|pc|C9|pc|CT|pc|CQ|pc|C3|pc|S9|pc|CJ|pc|S7|pc|D5|pc|SQ|pc|C4|pc|C5|pc|DK|pc|S5|pc|D6|
It looks as if 4 !H would be off 1.